Senior Member
@Sweaty are you for Real ? Like Vakris said 600ms lights speed up to 500ms is just a fix.
Not a buff. If we would talk about a Real buff, then we could discuss about her entire kit.
But there, this is only about fixing 600ms lights which Should.Not.Be.In.The.Game.
Like it or not, the team already said they want to fix it. So it would come for Kensei and HL too for example.
Your argue here have no sense just like in the Valk thread.
Community Manager
Senior Member
Well done is done... the feedback will be faster lights.
The effort to change 600 ms lights to 500 ms will be the same as changing the parameters on her dodge attack dodge properties or stamina involvements in HS but to see us through to the next update we will get.... something useless 'just because' all the cool kids have it.
Junior Member
I believe a good way of measuring a hero is taking a look at their kit and comparing it with the rest of the cast to determine how well they fare. With that in mind i'd say nobushi is in a pretty bad sport.
She is supposed to be an assassin/vanguard, however, she takes the worst of both worlds with none of the advantages:
-Has 120 hp like an assassin, but doesnt have a decent dodge attack (almost no i-frames)
-Doesnt have a bash from neutral (unless you count in HS into kick, which is the worst possible bash, taking half of your stamina, doing no damage and being slow as hell and easy to punish)
-Doesnt have unblockable attacks or hyper armor
-Has very slow attacks, some of the slowest in the game, without having massive damage on them. Coupled with the previous she is easily interrupted/traded by most of the cast.
Her "thing"(hidden stance) is objectively awful. It protects from one attack, if used at the right moment (sometimes its just far better to parry), doesnt guarantee anything more than a single light attack. Currently in the game there are far better all guards. JJ has his own version of HS, that replenishes his stamina. Its just like hidden stance only far better. BP with bulwark is even better. It will drop you on the floor and get a guaranteed hit (while allowing teamates to also slam you while on the floor) Conq, valk and warlord all have their own all-guards, that they can admittedly be hit in with certain attacks but still guarantee something on block. The only thing HS guarantees is a light attack and the slow stamina recovery after entering it.
Nobushi was designed to fight long range. Changes in the game have made this obsolete too. Half of the cast can whizz by her attacks and close the distance. Zerk will jump through her attack with hyper armor dealing much more damage than she does and closing the distance. Most dodge hereos have so kind of a gap-closing dodge to bypass her long range. And if all else fails, her attacks are so damn slow, you can just parry her light and close the gap in recovery.
Her kick is sad, it comes out so slow, my granma could dodge on reaction. After the dodge you can smash her however you like.
Swift recoil is another dead piece of her kit. With so many heroes having a forward dash attack, and being able to recover before her, she can pull a swift recoil only to get hit by the next attack while still in animation. There is very little reason to ever use this move, as it stands.
All in all, Nobu feels neglected and fighting against the odds. She direly needs something to make her more viable. Faster light attacks are a must, however i do feel like she needs a bit more. I-frames on dodge attacks for example.
Swift recoil could actually be an interesting thing, if it only staggered the opponent back and not nobu. It doesnt have to guarantee any hit, however a small stamina punish would also make it a viable choice. That way, nobu could keep up the distance, without it becoming an insta-parry button. It would be interesting enough even if it didnt guarantee a hit, as it could increase the distance and interrupt an aggressive enemy, changing the momentum of the fight. The slight push back or stagger would also be interesting in so far that people would be more careful spamming out lights against nobu when near spikes and ledges.
Another interesting addition to her kit, that i dont think would make her OP is allowing vipers retreat to be a part of the poke the nest chain. Btw currently, if you do a swift recoil, vipers retreat right after it will guaranteed miss...
In any case i see no excuse for keeping her lights this slow in comparison to other heros. Currently she literally has nothing that she does better than any other hero in the game. Her dodge attacks dont dodge, her all guard usually hurts her more than the opponent (stamina cost) bleed doesnt stack so her damage is mostly potential etc.
I think she really needs a rework, or at least a buff. In the mean time, making her lights faster will at least make her a bit more viable.
Senior Member
You still haven't understood the point about 600ms lights being obsolete and as undesirable in the modern game as the old parry rewards and critical health regen was. That's unfortunate but to each their own.Originally Posted by Sweaty_Sock Go to original post
Senior Member
I do understand where you are coming from, however its not waving a magic wand & turning all 600 ms lights into 500 ms lights or they would likely have done it in a single patch - each will likely get a balance pass (i.e. like wardens damage reduction).Originally Posted by Vakris_One Go to original post
I'll restate myself in a longer explanation as I may have come across in my original post overly negative on any changes to nobu - I just felt the need to 'devils advocate' and probably went a little hard on it.
Since returning to the game (didnt play the marching fire season) & rushing my rep 60 up to rep 70, I've parked all my highest rep characters and have changed my character pool to a rotation of Cent, PK, Nobu & BP (with a sprinkling of Warlord). I'll restate - I understand 500 ms is the new standard and 600 ms is the old, outdated & crusty light attack speed
With the wonders of the new matchmaking often throwing me all around the skill brackets, there are two clear pools of players (on console at least)
Group 1) Those that can deal with a neutral 500ms light (blocking 90%+ and parry half of that or more)
Group 2) Those that cannot and struggle to even block a direction change/light (blocking a varying amount but generally only parrying on accident when throwing a heaving attack)
Using BP as a parallel
Group 1) Cut off the powerful light into bash/heavy/light followup options of the BP and essentially reduce his engage options to dash forward heavy (suicidal), his obvious heavy/bash softfeing or dash forward bash (which is all they are concerned about so use appropriate spacing and reactions to avoid & punish enough that a few 17 damage hits won't cost them the fight). Here the lack of BP's kit really starts to show with slow heavies and not alot of options outside of the standard feints, baiting with whiffed attacks or standard GB's
Group 2) Are virtually at your mercy, all you have to do is spam lights, bash's and throw some heavies in at angles outside their guard direction if they are dodging
With Nobu my concerns are
Group 1) will continue to block/parry exactly the same, at this level it is really just a matter of standardization rather than a useful change. Against these players I will have to continue as I do now in only using lights when guaranteed and maybe once or twice mid/late duel once it is unexpected
Group 2) will get utterly smashed by the light/light/light & light/kick/light. While you could say 'git gud' these players are around and will start giving a false positive win ratio to the Nobu in relation to her overall winrate and need for changes, not to mention these players will start to hate her like they do orochi, bp and the like
What I would prefer is:
Light light (guaranteed) light combo to be instead be
Light Heavy (guaranteed) light.
Light 1 is guaranteed on kick, and from there you would now have options like feint, kick (on block) as well as a reduction in the parry punish you receive for letting it fly. Mechanically this isn't hard as PK has guaranteed light on heavy so the mechanics already exist.
EDIT: By all means tell me you disagree, I am wrong about things all the time, however I have put some serious thought into this and am not just saying 'no' for the fun of it
Junior Member
i agree with majority of this post. after playing nobushi and getting her to rep 1 lvl 17, i can now make adjustments to my OP.Originally Posted by SauronsChampion Go to original post
after getting a feel of the character, her lights and almost everything i throw out from neutral gets parried still (i cope with that by feinting of course) but when she’s got the slowest stamina regen, i just feel like a sitting duck while i wait for my stamina to recover and then it just becomes a staring contest for 6 seconds too long.
her HS takes up too much stamina. she’s supposed to embody the concept of a snake and it is sadly ironic how slow and predictable she is. Even when you get the two lights + bleed off, there is nothing else you can do outside of hidden stance that will guarantee a hit without being punished terribly.
some other issues i had with HS is that it wasn’t as fast as i thought. Like you can’t dodge lights with it. maybe that would be a bit overpowered? idk but i feel like that would be something that can make her defense stronger while also appealing to her viper concept and other abilities.
she doesn’t really have any “combos” outside of HS. the only one that really works for me is feinting heavys and GB. or side step heavy for some reason. i wish it was still connectable because as of now (?) after doing one dodge heavy it doesn’t connect with other attacks unless it starts with a dodge light.
overall, nobu is a cheesy character cause you can spam kick + connect kick + bleed every time if someone wants to but i really like her play style but i don’t play that way. i’m just saying she could use another piece to her kit..
i don’t think a rework would be good since she has the potential to be really strong how she is but definitely an update to her lights, faster stamina regen and maybe a short stun tap to the enemy would make her as good as the others and will add some respect for rep 30+ Nobushi’s who can utilize her fully.
