Can Nobushi get faster attacks please? | Forums

[Sweaty_Sock]

I should explain my thoughts better - a large portion of the playerbase are console, and a large portion of that are in the lower to mid skill bracket. A Nobu on launch was three striking everything to death within a 30 mile radius.

Combine my memories with that of how a large portion of the game are already struggling with 500ms lights and you'd find a new noob stomping spammer.

What I WOULD think is a good idea is a a glad style poke with high stamina. Nobu should be a turtle you have to attack, so a small, niggling attack to force this i'd be all for (maybe a high stamina cost bash that applies some bleed damage onto the bash?)

EDIT: at higher skill brackets 500 ms won't really save you all that much

[Vakris_One]

I should explain my thoughts better - a large portion of the playerbase are console, and a large portion of that are in the lower to mid skill bracket. A Nobu on launch was three striking everything to death within a 30 mile radius.

Combine my memories with that of how a large portion of the game are already struggling with 500ms lights and you'd find a new noob stomping spammer.

What I WOULD think is a good idea is a a glad style poke with high stamina. Nobu should be a turtle you have to attack, so a small, niggling attack to force this i'd be all for (maybe a high stamina cost bash that applies some bleed damage onto the bash?)

EDIT: at higher skill brackets 500 ms won't really save you all that much

Pretty much every character was a beast at launch because we were all new to the game. Every single character in the roster had a "This sh*t is OP!!!" thread dedicated to them in the first year of this game's life. 90% of the playerbase struggled with parrying 600ms lights at launch. Now hardly anyone does. Talking about a character's state at launch is not relevant to a balancing discussion in 2019. The game has moved on and changed massively since then.

If you're implying that giving characters the new standard of 500ms light attack speeds will turn them into light spammers on console, I will have to fundamentally disagree with you there. There are already many characters, Heavy class chatacters at that, that do not have a single light attack slower than 500ms and yet they're not mercilessly pawning the console playerbase with "light spam" like they're the new Orochi or Nuxia.

Nothing in your reasoning changes the fact that no character deserves to be stuck with 600ms lights in the game as it exists now in 2019.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Like you said 600 ms was an issue at launch, 500 ms can be an issue now if its such a dangerous tool. I'm not talking about top tiers here i'm saying quality of life for the average player

No character has the two hit spam of Nobu - warden/shinobi/orochi have both lights combined after 1, the 500 ms IS an issue for a large portion of console players. Catching a third hit is easier than the the first two, why so many orochis will not throw a third light in their spamming anymore

averagee player goes 'I got hit, oh they spamming, block/parry'. With nobu it goes 'I got hit, oh they spa- wait im hit again'

[Kryltic]

Like you said 600 ms was an issue at launch, 500 ms can be an issue now if its such a dangerous tool. I'm not talking about top tiers here i'm saying quality of life for the average player

No character has the two hit spam of Nobu - warden/shinobi/orochi have both lights combined after 1, the 500 ms IS an issue for a large portion of console players. Catching a third hit is easier than the the first two, why so many orochis will not throw a third light in their spamming anymore

averagee player goes 'I got hit, oh they spamming, block/parry'. With nobu it goes 'I got hit, oh they spa- wait im hit again'

Your entire message (and most of your replies) shows you have a poor understanding of the game.

[Sweaty_Sock]

You're entire message (and most of your replies) shows you have a poor understanding of the game.

Please provide examples

I am happy to change my mind, convince me.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Putting some more time into her maybe have a new idea - make the second light in her 3 strikes a heavy (same animation just different input) - 1 this makes if feint-able to help with turtles, 2 reduces penalty in going for it

EDIT: would also free her up for a faster two light combo without bleed etc.

EDIT: she can initiate guaranteed off a kick, then have options for a change

[Kryltic]

If you struggle to deal with or block 500ms lights then this game isn't for you, Nobushi is the only character with virtually all her lights as 600ms. Giving all her (and everyone else's) light attacks a max speed of 500ms makes them viable options to attack with.

If you think she is a light spammer then again, you must think someone like the Orochi is a pure god? Hitting two slow lights is not that easy vs a half decent player, as a Nobushi main, I know. Getting the final free light at the end is a great reward for the huge risk you take. Would it be too much after the tiny boost? No, because you still have to hit two attacks.

As for changing your mind? I somehow doubt anyone will. Nobushi has been consistently performing poorly on most/all the tables of data from Ubi and yet you think she is some OP godlike character who doesn't deserve a quality of life buff that every other character has or has had, for a long time.

[Vakris_One]

Like you said 600 ms was an issue at launch, 500 ms can be an issue now if its such a dangerous tool. I'm not talking about top tiers here i'm saying quality of life for the average player

I don't think anyone thinks that a 500ms light is a spam issue or a dangerous tool and if they do then they clearly need to play the game more and get more experienced at it because that means they are still below the average player.

I don't feel you're portraying the average player correctly here. The average player should be able to consistenly block 500ms light attacks because 500ms is 100% reactable for the majority of human beings. A simple test of this theory is the fact that if this were not the case then Reddit and this forum would be flooded with complaints about 500ms light attacks almost every day, 24/7. But that's not the case though is it?

500ms lights are the basic standard speed for something considered as a light attack - a level of understanding that has been reached by both the developers and the majority playerbase as we have all evolved our understanding of the game over the years. Keeping someone below that standard is ensuring that they have built-in dead pieces of kit and that is not fair as far as I'm concerned.

No character has the two hit spam of Nobu - warden/shinobi/orochi have both lights combined after 1, the 500 ms IS an issue for a large portion of console players. Catching a third hit is easier than the the first two, why so many orochis will not throw a third light in their spamming anymore

"The two-hit spam of Nobu..."

I think we have two very different understandings of what spam means. I would never think to associate the words "Spam" and "Nobush lights" in the same universe let alone the same sentence.

Warden/Orochi/Shinobi have their second light guarranteed upon landing their first from the correct side. Nobu has to land her first light and then land the second light in her chain in order to get to her guarranteed 3rd light. You actually have more opportunity of stopping Nobu from getting to her guarranteed double-tap because you have the chance to block or dodge her 2nd light and stop her before she double-taps you.

500ms lights are not a huge issue for the majority of console players. They get blocked more often than they get parried when compared to PC, where the parry ratio is higher, but that's about it.

averagee player goes 'I got hit, oh they spamming, block/parry'. With nobu it goes 'I got hit, oh they spa- wait im hit again'

If they're wondering why they got hit instantly by the 3rd attack that's a problem of the player not having enough knowledge of how Nobushi's moveset works.

You have as much opportunity to block a 2nd non-guarranteed 500ms light as you do to block the first one. In fact you have more of an opportunity to evade the 2nd light such as dodging or full blocking it when you know that your opponent is trying to get to their comboed double-tap.

I'm just not seeing the logic of fighting so hard to deny Nobushi something which is already confirmed as the defacto standard for light attacks via the new heroes released in Year 2 onwards and the reworks/character updates released in Year 3 so far. The fact that she has a specific combo game that might actually get used again is not game breaking. Last I checked it was called having a character with a unique moves list.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Nobu gets three hits for two, this is unique because the first is easy, the second can be reacted to

Nobu spam WAS a thing at launch

I am not against giving character buffs, what I am against is the idea that everyone has to have the same things, a 500ms light will make very little difference in terms of skilled play & will not address an issue that you are all identifying. People turtles against nobu because she is a defensive character. Faster lights wont fix that.

I.e the people this will work against are not the people who can stop it. The higher tiers will not even notice this.

[Sweaty_Sock]

If you struggle to deal with or block 500ms lights then this game isn't for you, Nobushi is the only character with virtually all her lights as 600ms. Giving all her (and everyone else's) light attacks a max speed of 500ms makes them viable options to attack with.

if dealing with 500 ms isnt an issue then this is a self defeating argument... if 500ms are easy to counter whats the point in adding them?

If you think she is a light spammer then again, you must think someone like the Orochi is a pure god? Hitting two slow lights is not that easy vs a half decent player, as a Nobushi main, I know. Getting the final free light at the end is a great reward for the huge risk you take. Would it be too much after the tiny boost? No, because you still have to hit two attacks.

Again if you are saying 500ms is easy to stop this won't fix the underlying issue with the character? Further you are saying that you take RISK for that damage.

As for changing your mind? I somehow doubt anyone will. Nobushi has been consistently performing poorly on most/all the tables of data from Ubi and yet you think she is some OP godlike character who doesn't deserve a quality of life buff that every other character has or has had, for a long time.

I have said maybe turn second into heavy, maybe give her a bash that causes bleed to force aggression against her without being the only move you use. If you want to buff her then work with the identity of the characters. She is defensive.