Why complain about BP but not Warden? | Forums

[LightUpTheEyes]

He cannot cancel a charge and parry on reaction. You have zero clue on what you're talking about.
Maybe in low tier land where people struggle to block 500ms combo lights Warden is a reaction god who can't be touched.
Try playing against actually decent people and then you'll understand why your perception of warden is incredibly flawed.

Lol I really don't know what to say to that.

That was a jerk thing to say, and yes you can cancel the charge and parry the lite. You should play against either this guy named PlayFiends or Iced sellout.

[LightUpTheEyes]

He cannot cancel a charge and parry on reaction. You have zero clue on what you're talking about.
Maybe in low tier land where people struggle to block 500ms combo lights Warden is a reaction god who can't be touched.
Try playing against actually decent people and then you'll understand why your perception of warden is incredibly flawed.

Although if I were to bet on who your main is, I would put my money on Warden.

[Knight_Raime]

Lol

While my reaction isn't...right for me to do it's 100% warrented in my book. It's frustrating to constantly have to explain in detail why someone's information is flat out incorrect. Maybe I wouldn't mind if I was asked why instead it would be easier for me. I understand that I don't know everything, and that if I was some random person posting for the first few times that skepticisim would be warrented. But i've pretty much established myself here. You guys know me. So i'd expect at least the benefit of the doubt. But anyway. With the explanation of my outburst out of the way. Let me EXPLAIN Warden to you:

Warden has 3 level's of his bash. Uncharged, charging, and full charged. The competitive community refers to them as level 1 ,2 and 3. So from this point forward so will I. His level 1 bash can't be lighteded as a counter. This is because the earliest he can do his bash is 300ms into his dodge. However this bash can be beaten with a dodge attack or dodge GB. Further more you can dodge GB it because the recovery on the whiffed bash (at any level of charge) is long. You can even GB him in start up of the bash.

His level 2 bash can be beaten out by a light/zone, a GB in start up, a dodge attack, or a dodge into a roll. Because he is charging you can technically dodge early and still have time to dodge again to avoid his level 2. Everything that beats his level 2 bash will also beat his level 3 bash barring hitting him out of it because at this point he has armor. But this is fine. Because at this point you have ample time to straight up avoid and punish.

It's also worth mentioning that you can still entirely avoid his bash game while out of stamina. You can still dodge early and then dodge again to correctly avoid his level 2 and 3 bash. In addition to the above universal ways to avoid/punish his bash there are character specific ones as well. For instance, gladiator's backwards heavy spaces warden out completely. Warden can't approach gladiator because his heavies have long range. And due to their attack speed you can't attempt to even GB it as a response. and since they're feintable trying to parry them is a bad idea. Valk of course has her shield tackle. It avoids all of warden's offensive options on reaction and can punish most of them. Raider can dodge GB or threaten with stunning tap on dodge. Warden can punish the latter on a read. But not the former. etc.

Warden (for the most part) can technically counter any universal way to punish him. But due to the timings of things none of it can be done on reaction. If he tries to feint GB or feint into dodge heavy in reaction to your dodge into roll his GB bounces off and the person rolling can block the dodge heavy. Warden has to throw the dodge heavy while you are in the middle of doing your dodge in order for it to land. Because then it will hit you while you are transitioning into roll. Feint into GB only works out because you're catching them in the start up of the dodge timing wise. If you try to do it on reaction it's too slow and they can CGB. It's mega unsafe to do against someone who has a dodge attack because then you're punished.

Warden can feint to parry a zone/light attempt. But not on reaction. Because there is a brief recovery period after feinting before you can do any action. And if the person is timing their attack with your charge right there is no brief period for you to wait on their input. They're already attacking you once you start charging. To try to frame it in numbers you have to charge and then input feint immediately. Practically simultaneously on your inputs. This visually would look like you almost didn't even charge. You need to do this because as mentioned previously the earliest you can input your bash is 300ms into your dodge. If the person is using a 500ms attack that means you effectively have a 200ms window to react. This doesn't factor in guard switch time or the recovery you're put into after a feint.

Essentially speaking if the attack is 600ms or faster parrying is not a reaction with warden. It's a read. The one method I haven't mentioned is feinting a charging bash into an uncharged bash. This can punish someone who messed up their dodge timing and they're going for a second dodge or a roll. But it's incredibly situational so it's rarely used. So this brings us full circle. Warden can't punish his opponent on reaction because properly timed/used punishes put them out of reaction territory. But this doesn't mean Warden's opponent is free to punish him on reaction. If Warden baits his opponent into reading him wrong Warden can punish the wrong read.

Warden has the advantage here because people are forced to play his game. And due to the flexibility and strengths of his bash/kit Warden can punish attempted punishes on him. Something most hero's can't do. But because none of Warden's options are safe and the risk he puts himself in every time he tries to be offensive/punish Warden can't just spam out things at random and win. Warden needs to read his opponent and act accordingly. And his opponent needs to Ready Warden correctly and act accordingly.

[Knight_Raime]

Although if I were to bet on who your main is, I would put my money on Warden.

Warden has never been my main. He's been one of my 3 pocket characters for sometime now. But never my main.
It was Centurion from Season 2 to season 6. Black prior is my main at this time.

EDIT: I'm having to get off my computer now. The desk is getting used by someone else.
If you reply to my lengthy post with a lengthy reply of your own, or I am required to give yet another detailed response it's going to have to wait till later tonight. Otherwise i'll respond on mobile when I am able.

[UbiInsulin]

Let's avoid the "git guds" and variants thereof, if you please.

warden is a member of the family unlike the other emo can't accept his presence

Dang that's harsh.

[Knight_Raime]

Let's avoid the "git guds" and variants thereof, if you please.



Dang that's harsh.

Yeah I explained myself and then gave a proper response. Not changing my mean response though. Would be saving face and I don't do that.

[RenegadeRasta]

Knight Raime still being a **** and giving the devs free rimjobs.

[Knight_Raime]

Knight Raime still being a **** and giving the devs free rimjobs.

Renegade still attacking players instead of the argument.

[Sweaty_Sock]

Knight_Raime - right on the interrupts, timings etc.

Baggin_ - I believe referring to parry fishing with the shoulderbash. To do this you have to essentially do the equivalent of a feint - you start a shoulderbash with the intention of cancelling to parry whatever it rattles loose. To help deal with this remember which stance the warden was in before he started the bash when you are going for a light interrupt as per Raime suggestion. Hit somehwere his stance isnt (preferably the side) Also if he is doing this alot just throw a few GB's, the penalty for cancelling SB is exactly the same for a flash second as for 1% off full charge, so if the warden does this without getting the parry they are burning a significant chunk of stamina

Also on topic I complain often, and loudly about the warden, and I am a rep 70 warden (hate the rework, just had invested that much time in it that I thought I'd push through to rep 70). He is too much of a one trick pony with a lack of other kit

[Jazz117Volkov]

...I am a rep 70 warden (hate the rework, just had invested that much time in it that I thought I'd push through to rep 70). He is too much of a one trick pony with a lack of other kit

I'm at rep 62, if I recall. Been a Warden main since launch, and I have to agree to a certain extent. Warden is the n00btube, and maybe the best newbie stomper this side of Centurion, but at higher level you still can't really do anything against a stubborn opponent. It's all reads from neutral, your bash mix-ups cost too much stamina to actually be useful in the middle of a bout.

I'll always love the Warden to bits, just 'cause, but as a Warden main, I do feel pushed aside by the devs. My kit is painfully bland compared to the gradient pressure Lawbringer can bring, or the chaos Shaman administers. Warden's max power is two moves deep, then you reset to neutral.