Not excited for WT5 anymore | Forums

[Nidi89]

From what I see the Grenadiers are the worst offenders when it comes to rushing. Most enemies get convinced by some bullets to get to cover ASAP but those Grenadiers? NOPE. They just walk up to you, unload their SMG and burst you down if you try to switch cover.

There was a theory I saw on reddit where people suspect that the enemy behavior is tied to their TTK. So if the Agent is weakened without armor they move in for the kill since their TTK is so low that they can trade shots very safely. But with the insane damage those Grenadiers are doing, they probably think that we are weakened enough for them to rush in and get the kill done since their TTK is so low that they can do it safely.

The problem on WT4 yellow Grenadiers ( especially with CP3-4 and challenging missions ) is that they are tanky enough to do the rushing, even with shooting at the weakspot, are accurate AF and their SMGs are putting out more bullets in two burst than I have on me after a full restock. They outclass the rushers in rushing, the snipers in accuracy and the LMG guys in laying down supressive fire. I don't have that problem on Assaulters ( excepty Hyena Assaulters ), Engis or Medics.

[Hurstshift]

No, SOME of the enemies use cover. The snipers and RC car dudes. But the grenadiers, engineers, medics, gunners, rushers, suicide bombers, shield dudes and heavies all will regularly just break cover to yolo run up to and over your cover.

For rushers and suicide bombers, this is fine, they have low HP and weak points to compensate for their rushing.
For shield dudes and heavies they tend to stay at medium range and tank you with armour so that's fine.

But for grenadiers, gunners, engineers and medics they have high health, ranged weapons, and a one hit melee attack these enemies should not be out of cover rushing you, they should be in cover using their ranged weapons.

They do this if you stay in the same cover for too long. If they cant hit you they try to get to a point where they can. Its how AI normally works in games where cover is a mainstay mechanic.

[AnimatedJester]

They do this if you stay in the same cover for too long. If they cant hit you they try to get to a point where they can. Its how AI normally works in games where cover is a mainstay mechanic.

There is a difference in a cover based shooter though in them moving to a better position to shoot you by actually moving cover themselves rather than just saying f*** the cover system we don't need it because 3 of us rushing you at once will make your team unable to focus any of us down before we get to you.

Biggest things that would aid this and be more plausible are 1: have enemies move from cover to cover the same way we have to and not just walk straight up to us in groups that make it impossible to burst down. and 2: Make LMG suppression also force enemies that are out of cover into cover or to back off from their push towards you.

[Vursoli]

A possible solution for OP would be to add another difficulty. Name it what you will. I'm sure a lot of people could come up with some good names. But the fact is, there are legit concerns, here.

I don't know how scaling works. I've had games where I get shredded, and I've had games where I manage just fine. Maybe it's my gear? Maybe I'm just tired and dgaf so I don't use cover enough. But overall, I stand by WT4 being on point. It's tough. It's level 4. Levels aren't supposed to get easier. But a weaker difficulty could be the solution for OP and many others.

Love the game though, and difficulty is GREAT.

Edit: For anyone upset about the rushers. Have you tried to crowd control them? A flame turret. A firefly? The goo-gun? I mean, these game mechanics were added for a reason.

[Nidi89]

Edit: For anyone upset about the rushers. Have you tried to crowd control them? A flame turret. A firefly? The goo-gun? I mean, these game mechanics were added for a reason.

Its not about the Rushers themselves. Those guys are supposed to rush you. But its about enemies who, on later difficulties, tend to forget that cover exists and just walk up to you while surpressing you with their SMGs and can kill you in a second if you try to switch cover or shoot them. Its something that I only see with yellow bois on higher difficulty ( don't see this on normal and hard ) and the worst offenders seem to be Outcast Throwers followed by Hyena Assaulters and Hyena Throwers ( who also outclass the LMG guys in surpressive fire ). True Sons seem to be way less prone to this weird behavior and stick to cover more or wait until their foam blaster goes "SURPRISE" on you.

I know challenging needs to be well challenging, but it feels very wrong if standing in minigun fire is less deadly than getting shot by one of those yellow SMG dudes. I can survive the fire of most elite enemies for long enough to shoot a good amount of armor but as soon as the elites get fast firing SMGs.... nope.

[Ramirenzo]

They do this if you stay in the same cover for too long. If they cant hit you they try to get to a point where they can. Its how AI normally works in games where cover is a mainstay mechanic.

That would be fine if they were actually attempting to flank me to get a shot at me, but they're not really flanking they're just using their huge health pools to barge their way behind my cover, I mean if the enemy can do that then why have cover in the first place?

See this incredible infographic I made for another thread.

[kvk_delv]

wt4 is way too easy

[Akuhdemiks]

That would be fine if they were actually attempting to flank me to get a shot at me, but they're not really flanking they're just using their huge health pools to barge their way behind my cover, I mean if the enemy can do that then why have cover in the first place?

See this incredible infographic I made for another thread.

You know looking at this and its like wow my complaints for rushers have gone away. Aside from suiciders and melees. The behavior you show in your drawing is for the most part thr behavior I am seeing from most rushing enemies. In terms of pathing.

Edit: Clarification - The "good flanking" is the behaviour I am talking about noticing. I have never really seen the "bad behaviour" out side of meleers and suiciders.

[Cyanide-Cure]

You know looking at this and its like wow my complaints for rushers have gone away. Aside from suiciders and melees. The behavior you show in your drawing is for the most part thr behavior I am seeing from most rushing enemies. In terms of pathing.

Edit: Clarification - The "good flanking" is the behaviour I am talking about noticing. I have never really seen the "bad behaviour" out side of meleers and suiciders.

*sits back with some popcorn to watch this one unfold*

I'm good with the way things have been thus far for me and my gf with the game. We both have a good time and even though it gets rough sometimes it's been hella fun. Good points for both sides though, I can see how some people who have trouble adapting get out flanked, outgunned but Mega-Badguys who have no bounds in their tank abilities, or simply just have trouble using cover, fire, and maneuvers.

[Akuhdemiks]

Better get alot of popcorn. Wait for ppl to start complaining about what was said in State of the Game.