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  1. #21
    echolecter's Avatar Senior Member
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    Welcome to the West Side Piers, this is a section of the map where all the TD magic happens, unlike the rest of the game. When you go into WSP you will encounter waves of enemies can keep spawning continually without end. There are three main mission for resistance which are equal to what happens in the streets, wave after wave. Personally I didn't like it that much but whenever you want to finish your commendations you can go in at Tier 1 with maxed out gear of Tier 5 (280-291). AI will then become very easy to kill and don't do as much damage to you when having lower gear. I have always used firearms builds since it enables me to kill before they can even shoot at me, so there is no need for tank builds, apart from legendary and heroic missions.

    The WSP are part of DLC expansion and the rest of the game does not spawn waves of enemies as in that area, it only occurs in North and South Piers. With higher weapon and gear scores most parts of the game will get much easier to play. Then you can resist any mobs spawning in the map, up to a point where in many cases you don't even need to go in cover anymore. But I felt the game did change dramatically after having reached level 30 and it became easier to progress doing the missions that I didn't complete.
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  2. #22
    Frag_Maniac's Avatar Banned
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    Finally got Unauthorized Access done. The trick was destroying the jammer first, but last night it immediately showed all 3 lieutenant markers as well. When it shows all markers the lieutenants are usually in spots far away from one another, which was not only my experience, but that of others I saw videos of.

    Taking out the jammer took a few tries, as it was swarming with enemies and one would usually get me before getting it destroyed. Plus obviously you can't set up the turret because it jams it. I also thought an EMP grenade would only let a turret run a few seconds, so I used frags. When I destroyed it and went to the spot for the lieutenants, they were all in the same spot.

    I lured the cleaner heavy from a far end of the spot they were at into the maze of big crates where the jammer was, then retreated to a sidewalk between there and the little park to use as a choke point. I then wound up on the big boxes taking cover from the last 2 lieutenants, but also as a vantage point to shoot them and the goons that came.

    I got the sniper chick but then got caught off guard by some goons that rushed. All that was relatively easy compared to the numerous attempts at the heavy gunner lieutenant. It was not so much due to him but getting to him without getting caught in traps between close proximity spawns of enemies on the way there. This spawn spamming style I am not a big fan of, it feels like cheesed-in challenge.

    It took a awhile but I finally figured out a fairly good set of tactics to deal with trap spawns. I'd pop the turret in the store near the intersection, which is where one of the worst trap spawns can happen. It gave me enough time to retreat to an excellent spot on the 2nd floor of the store. This store, though having a tendency toward annoying spawns, was also what helped me avoid that intersection I mentioned, cutting through it instead. At the end of the day I'd rather be faced with a battle where I can take good cover and dominate.

    The other thing is remembering where I had just killed a group of enemies the prior spawn to guess whether there'd be any there next time (usually not). I also found staying in cover and leap frogging from one cover spot to another helps keep you from getting spotted, but not so much with particularly nasty enemy placements and spawns.

    The place I found very good for taking out the last guy was the alleyway behind the huge building he paces in front of. I would take cover around a corner and toss the turret atop an electrical panel just before starting to fire at him. The first time I got there, I had to face a bunch of goons swarming as they heard the ruckus, but honestly what made me die was I didn't toss another turret or grenade once the first was destroyed.

    The second time I nearly got there but a gang of goons spawned back in the alleyway right friggin behind me. The 3rd time, despite being in broad daylight, the sneak to the spot went well, and only one goon came down the alleyway after I killed the lieutenant. The lieutenant went down pretty quickly with just the turret, some sniper shots and a well timed/placed grenade.

    I've seen some in their vids of the game rave about the AI, calling it excellent the way it's often hard to tell where and when they're going to spawn. For me it breaks immersion (especially when you can see them appear), and makes solo play annoying. I could see it if they scaled it to be more aggressive for coop, as it can be more frustration than fun solo.

    I had more of a feeling of relief and exhaustion than a rewarding sense after beating it. It's merely a matter of luck in some ways that you don't get bad enemy placements and spawns. BTW thanks echo for the heads up on WSP being the only place these weird spawns happen. That is actually more of a relief than beating this mission was.
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  3. #23
    Bambihunter1971's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frag_Maniac Go to original post
    BTW thanks echo for the heads up on WSP being the only place these weird spawns happen. That is actually more of a relief than beating this mission was.
    When I first encountered this in the WSP, I kind of liked the dynamic spawns. However, invariably, I completely clear an area. Nothing as far as I can see looking through my sniper scope. Yeah, I am good to make a quick loadout adjustment. Boom, while still in my inventory, I am dead. I like that they respawn but it needs to have either a timer, or a distance range before they can/will respawn.

    A few tips if you play the WSP much... There will be rotating objectives which is a good way to get WSP caches. I think they are on a 15 minute timer. Things like xx headshot kills, kills within 10 meters, etc. Also, there will be objectives like the destroy jammer you encountered. A couple like the "prevent hack attempt" mean that you have to stay close to the machine, usually with very little cover. They were extremely tough and annoying early on. But, once I finally got a D3 set those became easy and even with mobile cover which I use no where else in the game except for Resistance / WSP.

    Speaking of Resistance, I now think it is boring AF and the thought of going in there now makes my head hurt from helping so many people gear up. But, if you do the wave 10 or 12 routine, it is probably the easiest way to get classified gear after GE's and boss runs.
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  4. #24
    Frag_Maniac's Avatar Banned
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    As I clarified in some thread recently here, but forgot where, I found out WSP when you first get there is very bugged. It automatically gives you Neutralize Lieutenants and Destroy the SHD Jammer mission objectives, and for some reason calls it Unauthorized Access. So apparently the only way to play it unbugged (if you even can) is to make sure Unauthorized Acces is not selected, and make SURE you play the Destroy the SHD Jammer and Neutralize Lieutenants missions BEFORE attempting Unauthorized Access.

    When I went back to WSP recently it then only displayed the Neutralize Lieutenants objectives, and things went a LOT smoother on that mission this time.

    Again though, I'm kinda getting tired of people saying this or that build, gear set, etc, works a charm, when after asking numerous times how to do that or at least point me toward a comprehensive guide on it, falls on deaf ears. That's NOT the kind of thing in this game that is easy to figure out on your own, and one of the main reasons I've reached a stagnation point playing it.
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  5. #25
    Bambihunter1971's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frag_Maniac Go to original post
    Again though, I'm kinda getting tired of people saying this or that build, gear set, etc, works a charm, when after asking numerous times how to do that or at least point me toward a comprehensive guide on it, falls on deaf ears. That's NOT the kind of thing in this game that is easy to figure out on your own, and one of the main reasons I've reached a stagnation point playing it.
    Sorry to hear that. I think most, and certainly my reasoning for talking about gear sets is that it is the exact same game, with the same enemies, but once you start getting a set collection, those bonuses add up making you as a player more efficient. Before I geared up, I felt quite accomplished to get through certain missions such as Russian Consulate on hard. Now, I can play it on challenging and carry another (or more in one instance) player and rarely go down.
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  6. #26
    Frag_Maniac's Avatar Banned
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    Originally Posted by Bambihunter1971 Go to original post
    Sorry to hear that. I think most, and certainly my reasoning for talking about gear sets is that it is the exact same game, with the same enemies, but once you start getting a set collection, those bonuses add up making you as a player more efficient. Before I geared up, I felt quite accomplished to get through certain missions such as Russian Consulate on hard. Now, I can play it on challenging and carry another (or more in one instance) player and rarely go down.
    I don't have confusion or a problem with the idea of gear pieces that are part of the same set, and I DO see names on them that contain the word in the so called gear builds. If it were as simple as that, it'd be no problem. The problem lies in that most gear pieces have one or often two stat deficiencies in 1 or 2 of the 3 categories, and beyond that can often be atrocious in gear rating and bonuses as well. So I'm picturing a scenario where if I place like named gear pieces I find in a stash box, by the time I've compiled a set, they will no doubt have a huge variance in gear rating and bonus attributes, making them a poorly cobbled together mishmash at best. I don't see a way around that, and I don't see anyone that's talking about sets addressing it.

    There's the re-calibration bench, but all that is good for is swapping out talents and vaguely boosting bonuses within a range. The players that rave about sets though make it sound like you just have to collect them and you're good to go. I also have yet to see anyone mention a bonus beyond what's shown for each gear piece when you assemble a set. I assume having a full set gives you X % more boost to those talents, but there's no way for me to know for sure.

    I'm right at 251 gear rating right now playing on World Tier 2, using an LOAV-C (149,000 DSP - 242 score) and L86 SW (143,000 DSP - 267 score), with a SCAR Marksman (312,000 DSP - 240 score). I swap out for the LOAV-C. Talentss on each are Determined, Predatory, Commanding on LOAV-C, Meticulous, Adept, Determined on L86 SW, and Coolheaded, Meticulous, Unforgiving on SCAR-H. My Toughness and Stamina are 546,345/5,530, and Skill Power and Electronics are 156,622/3,954.

    The skills I use are Active Sensor Turret, Gas Charge Seeker Mine, and Recovery Link. I know some of my weapon talents could be better, but these skills more than make up for it. I've been playing nothing but Daily Mission Replay Challenges lately and Hard is way too easy and Challenging is even pretty doable. Challenging requires at least WT2 though, which is why I bumped up from WT1. The only one I had to respawn on in Challenging was the Power Plant, and that was only because I'd forgotten the objective marker for the last valve doesn't show until you've cleared the last wave. I kept going to the right spot when he kept saying to shut off all the valves, but ran out of time wasting time looking for it. So it was as much mission design failure as mission failure.

    I've done everything solo so far, and I foresee being able to get most if not all done on Legendary as well, if I even get that option on solo play without buying anymore DLC.

    Again though, gear leveling within a set I would think would be a huge problem with building a set, unless you can somehow buff their individual gear rating to make them equal or at least close to it. This is even more so the case since even on Challenging, I'm STILL picking up non gold gear that is 1/3 the rating of what I already have. I find that in itself ridiculous.

    I might be able to do a bit better with some crafting and/or re-calibrating, but I'd rather not dive too deep into the mage-like rabbit hole, where fantastical weapons and gear and their talents and bonuses do all the work for you. Plus as far as I know, recalibration only changes talents and bonuses, without raising the Firepower, Toughness, or Skill Power ratings.
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  7. #27
    Bambihunter1971's Avatar Senior Member
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    Don't get too hung up on the gear score number. Other than its use to progress WT to the next difficulty, it is really just a base indicator. It cannot take into account what you are building. It also rates the armor value higher than I think it should. I first look whether it is a gear set I want to run. Then, I look at the rolls. If it meets those two, then I keep it. If it is classified piece, I will spend Div Tech to max it out. I have spent a small fortune a few times to level up a perfectly rolled gear piece to 291 that started in the upper 250's.

    If/when you end up getting Classified gear sets, the benefit to them is that they have higher base stats (1401 vs 1272), they allow to be used with other classified pieces to utilize a 5th and 6th piece bonus, and 3rd, (the reason I bring this up), is that you can re-roll two stats. Honestly, other than the kneepads, re-rolling classy items to get what you are after isn't bad. Because kneepads have so many talents on them, it makes for some tough choices. I have honestly never understood why the developers chose to give that piece 4 talents, but something like holsters, only have one. I guess that could be because of it gives you all 3 base stats, but it isn't like you are going to roll those to something else. You'll just level them up. Remember that when you re-roll a piece, the other talents lock so make sure you remove the weak piece. I ended up wasting quite a few pieces when the optimization station came out. Before, I would take a higher rolled lesser desired stat. After that came out, the ability to roll good low stats up made it much stronger, at the cost of hard to find Div Tech.

    With my new account, I only have a few of the sets completed but perhaps due to my many hours, I have went ahead and optimized certain pieces that I know are what I am going to want (for instance, holsters are almost always going to be reload speed except for Lone Star and skill builds). I ended up getting the 291 gear score SHIELD commendation even though I didn't have more than 2 pieces of one set due to mix/matching good pieces.

    You mention on the other thread about feeling this is a P2W game. I have no earthly idea why one would think so. Most of the stuff a person can buy in this game is junk. The exotics you can buy certainly are. Using in-game currency I have bought mods, performance and gear mods, weapon parts, etc. I haven't bought one single thing with real money. I was annoyed when they pulled the emotes from the premium vendor that opens with in-game keys. Now, you have to spend real money for an in-game emote. F-that! I'll give that a real emote (middle finger) with in-game currency. LOL
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  8. #28
    Frag_Maniac's Avatar Banned
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    I meant pay credits to win, not real money. Is that really any better considering it's a LOT of time playing that gets you those credits? It's all in how much one values their time I guess.

    As far as the rest, I really don't know if I even have the time or desire to learn enough about builds and upgrading and rolling to want to try to get a perfectly matched and maxed build. I certainly DO know what comes of obsession too much over one game, and for me it's lack of sleep, crankiness, and overall poor health. I doubt what I've seen in the gameplay so far is worth all that.

    There's a lot of little details I still don't get, like how it's somehow worth it to you to start collecting gear pieces even at just Standard level? Doesn't that take an excessive amount of credits and resources to get to even High-end, and I'm not even sure if you can upgrade it to exotic or classified.

    What I'm saying is, the only way to maximize the scavenging/maxing process seems to be in getting lucky enough to find the super chic gear to begin with, and that apparently takes a ton of patience waiting for and hoping you have a free day to do weekly or twice monthly Legendary missions, Global Events, etc. I already missed the 15th GE this month because I was busy doing something else. I don't want to organize my schedule around a poorly designed video game quite frankly. I still don't see a legit reason these things aren't available daily.

    Another thing I don't get is if it's possible for me to beat any of the Daily Challenge missions on Challenging mode solo so far, and I've done some pretty tough ones, while you, a 3 year vet with those nice maxed gear sets is doing the same with the help of another player? It just doesn't tend to scream that gear builds are as effective as everyone says. Granted I've used the Turret and Seeker Mines, while you say you don't, but even if we count that vs having the help of another player a wash, we are still left with your 291 rated, perfectly rolled gear builds, vs my non rolled, non matched mere 267 rated gear.

    I'm not trying to brag or insult, as I still know very little about this game. I just want to be sure my time and frustration on collecting sets and upgrading and rolling them is well spent.
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  9. #29
    Bambihunter1971's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frag_Maniac Go to original post
    1. There's a lot of little details I still don't get, like how it's somehow worth it to you to start collecting gear pieces even at just Standard level? Doesn't that take an excessive amount of credits and resources to get to even High-end, and I'm not even sure if you can upgrade it to exotic or classified.

    2. What I'm saying is, the only way to maximize the scavenging/maxing process seems to be in getting lucky enough to find the super chic gear to begin with, and that apparently takes a ton of patience waiting for and hoping you have a free day to do weekly or twice monthly Legendary missions, Global Events, etc. I already missed the 15th GE this month because I was busy doing something else. I don't want to organize my schedule around a poorly designed video game quite frankly. I still don't see a legit reason these things aren't available daily.

    3. Another thing I don't get is if it's possible for me to beat any of the Daily Challenge missions on Challenging mode solo so far, and I've done some pretty tough ones, while you, a 3 year vet with those nice maxed gear sets is doing the same with the help of another player? It just doesn't tend to scream that gear builds are as effective as everyone says. Granted I've used the Turret and Seeker Mines, while you say you don't, but even if we count that vs having the help of another player a wash, we are still left with your 291 rated, perfectly rolled gear builds, vs my non rolled, non matched mere 267 rated gear.

    I'm not trying to brag or insult, as I still know very little about this game. I just want to be sure my time and frustration on collecting sets and upgrading and rolling them is well spent.
    1. No, you cannot upgrade standard gear to classified or exotic. Classifieds can only be bought during GE's at the GE vendors with GE credits, or if you have 2500 Phoenix credits from the vendor at the bottom of the stairs. Until you start getting classified gear sets, just keep a few to get you buy. No need to spend any Div Tech on them.

    2. There were no global events since the release of TD2 so you didn't miss anything. Non-classified gear, mods, weapons are available at the vendors on a weekly reset. Generally they aren't that great (they are all RNG based as well), but occasionally you'll find some good ones.

    3. I have no idea where you got the idea I needed help of another player for challenging. Quite the contrary. The closest thing I can think of me saying is that I often help level people, and currently while trying to speed level the first character on my 2nd account, I would have both accounts logged in, but I am only playing on one PC effectively scaling the enemies to 2. On one time on the Russian Consulate mission, I 'carried' my entire group (4 of us) after they said they were ready so I started the mission then I made a comment about them being in their inventory. I said something along the lines of 'don't worry guys, just work on your inventory, I'll take care of the mission'. One of them said, I'd like to see that. So, I ran the entire mission with 4 of us in the mission, but only me playing. I got a little close a time or two, but I never went down. I often cite this example when I say that I did that, but can't hardly do a legendary mission solo and have only done it once solo. That was helped by the perk of one of the GE's that benefited my playstyle. Are you now playing at WT5? Above you mentioned you were breezing through on WT2.


    I almost feel like I am arguing that you should like the game and you don't. But, I somewhat feel you are judging it on only part of the picture. To be frank, I am guilty of that with TD2. I have played only to level 14 and haven't played in a month; (when they broke the skills). So, while I have formed an opinion on what I have experienced to that point. Truth is there is a LOT more to try before I should write it off.
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  10. #30
    Frag_Maniac's Avatar Banned
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    Well, to be honest, in your prior post you compared your play style of my using a turret with the comment that you never use it, but said you were playing with another player. What was I to think, you didn't clarify why?

    Anyways, I tried the Russian Consulate on Challenging at WT4. I was making progress at the start, but when the last few came in I was running out of ammo because one of them kept healing the other two. I lowered it to WT2 and then Challenging was doable and I beat it.

    I'm OK with that because the only difference is the highest WTs force you to do this grindy gear set building using fantastical skills and multiplier BS. The thing I hate most about the idea of that is even when you find exotic gear, it's still got lower stats than what you already have, That is messed up if you ask me.

    You say I'm judging it on only part of the picture, and while that is true, it's also true that I've now got a pretty good idea of what it takes to get there and that it's a leap down the fantastical rabbit hole, and that I do not like. I'm also fed up with the inexcusable bugs this game has.

    Case in point, I found out the only way to play on Legendary mode is go up to World Tier 5. Fine, I had the gear rating for it so thought I'd see what it's all about. I tried the Grand Central Station mission. It was damn hard with no matched gear build and inadequate gear and weapons, but after a few respawns I got a slow, steady system going, and made progress.

    At the point where I should have been rewarded with the gate to the lower level opening, the last enemy of the 2nd group got stuck in a wall. From much chat I read, apparently one will sometimes jump over the escalator railing and no clip into it. It was said the player can do the same, but you get stuck and the mission resets to the beginning. After trying it, I found it to be true.

    These are the kind of things that only further validate why I feel the act of jumping through hoops to build and max a weapon and gear set is an exercise in futility in a game like this. This bug has been there for 3 years and from what I've seen, it only happens on Legendary mode. It would be so easy to fix and Ubi must know about it from all the talk, yet they are too lazy and greedy to do the right thing and fix it.
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