Flying helicopters | Forums

[JohnFromLisbon]

I just realised something.

When flying fixed wing aircraft Nomad will sit on the left seat - which is correct. But he does the same either for the Blackhawk or the Little Bird... On those he should sit on the right (long story short, the PiC should sit on the right side for better visibility and better control management)

I know, it's a minor thing, but it bothers me more than it should

[Mongol_Horde]

Hey Joao from Lisboa!

Are you sure? I just pulled up the movie Black Hawk Down. In the early chopper scenes, both Jeremy Piven (Wolcott) and Ron Eldard (Durant) are flying from the left seats. They are doing so later as well.

From wiki:
"... Black Hawk Super Six-One, piloted by Chief Warrant Officer Clifton "Elvis" Wolcott ..."
"... Super Six-Four, piloted by Chief Warrant Officer Michael Durant ..."

For that movie, it would have been a glaring oversight if that was wrong.

Wiki does show the Little Bird being piloted from the right seat, though.

I'm no expert, just an observer who could be as wrong as the next guy.

Mongol Horde out.

[Bone_Frog]

I'm not a rotor head, but I was pretty sure that it doesn't matter in modern helicopters which side the PIC sits on, though they typically sit on the right due to tradition. Here is a source backing that up.
https://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-...t-seat-243212/

As far as the black hawk down movie, it had several inaccuracies. Mike Durrant's cockpit position being one of them. Here is a picture of him during the battle of Mogadishu


From books that had pictures it would appear that Wolcott flew from the left... So there you go.

[Hugo-FOU]

Interesting article on the subject.

https://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-...t-seat-243212/

Perhaps in the next game whoever gets to the helo first can fly from whatever side they like!

[Snumsmumrik_07]

As far as I know, modern helis have fully duplicated controls on both seats (for safety reason also), so one may fly anywhere he wants.

[JohnFromLisbon]

Well, yes. But if you have two pilots the PiC can be either one depending on other tasks. In game, if you enter a Blackhawk or a Little Bird, only Nomad sits up front - if you only have one pilot he will sit on the right because of several advantages:

"The reason lies in the instability of helicopters.

Contrary to airplanes, helicopters aren't naturally stable. One hand is constantly on the cyclic stick (the main control) to adjust the aircraft attitude. For a right-handed pilot, the delicate and uninterrupted task of maintaining stability is more easily carried out using the right-hand. This implies the left hand has the burden to manipulate all other controls.

With helicopters controllable from a single seat, this was not a problem, the second control in order of importance, the collective lever, was located on the left side of the pilot. This allowed to use the airplane configuration with the pilot on the left side.

The problem appeared with dual-controlled helicopters which were also more complex aircraft: There were many controls between the two seats, so they can be used by both pilots. After a quick experimentation, it was clear the left-hand should be close to these controls.

The main pilot seat was therefore shifted to the right one, and a single collective lever was positioned, with other existing controls, between the seats."

https://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-...t-seat-243212/

[JohnFromLisbon]

Also, I think that in movies they do place actors playing the PiC on the left simply because if you're actually shooting during flight you'll need the actual pilot to be flying. Same reason they use left hand drive cars for chase scenes and place the actors with dummy steering wheels on the other side (like in Ronin, or those old BMW films with Clive Owen)

[Bone_Frog]

Well, yes. But if you have two pilots the PiC can be either one depending on other tasks. In game, if you enter a Blackhawk or a Little Bird, only Nomad sits up front - if you only have one pilot he will sit on the right because of several advantages:

"The reason lies in the instability of helicopters.

Contrary to airplanes, helicopters aren't naturally stable. One hand is constantly on the cyclic stick (the main control) to adjust the aircraft attitude. For a right-handed pilot, the delicate and uninterrupted task of maintaining stability is more easily carried out using the right-hand. This implies the left hand has the burden to manipulate all other controls.

With helicopters controllable from a single seat, this was not a problem, the second control in order of importance, the collective lever, was located on the left side of the pilot. This allowed to use the airplane configuration with the pilot on the left side.

The problem appeared with dual-controlled helicopters which were also more complex aircraft: There were many controls between the two seats, so they can be used by both pilots. After a quick experimentation, it was clear the left-hand should be close to these controls.

The main pilot seat was therefore shifted to the right one, and a single collective lever was positioned, with other existing controls, between the seats."

https://www.airspacemag.com/need-to-...t-seat-243212/

The reason is mostly historical... That all changed in 1946 with the arrival of Bell’s Model 47, the first civilian-certified helicopter, which featured dual collectives. From then on, dual collectives became standard for side-by-side seating, and a helicopter pilot could fly from either the left or right seat.

I guess Nomad just prefers flying from the left seat. Like I said above there is solid evidence that in the Army PIC pretty much chose the seat he wanted. Durrant sat right, while Wolcott sat left. That is Blackhawks, I'm not sure about little birds. Though I'm guessing that they are dual collective as well.