Wardens unblockable | Forums

[The_Wanderer.]

Just curious on why it does the same amount of damage as a regular top heavy. Since it’s an unblockable. Shouldn’t it do more damage? It should do 45 imo.

[Vendelkin]

Just curious on why it does the same amount of damage as a regular top heavy. Since it’s an unblockable. Shouldn’t it do more damage? It should do 45 imo.

That makes physical sense but is the wrong sense in terms of balance typically. If a move has more options or more powerful it is generally weaker than other moves with less options and similar speed. 45 would definately be too much for its ease of access and feintability imo.

[Sweaty_Sock]

That makes physical sense but is the wrong sense in terms of balance typically. If a move has more options or more powerful it is generally weaker than other moves with less options and similar speed. 45 would definately be too much for its ease of access and feintability imo.

It can only come from one direction, carries no hyper armour, has no soft feints, and does less damage than the kensei version that carried greater range, soft feint into GB or a hyper armour softfeint heavy or light mixup (or you can just feint it). It also is to slow & has too long a feint window that if you just throw a side light with most characters the moment he shows orange its happy days goodbye stamina mr warden

Its weaker and slower and carries less options than most comparable moves (highlander/kenei/shugo)

Don't dare mention a warden buff though, or the villagers will get out their pitchforks

[Kadete93]

So you want more damage to mix with that shoulder-bash spam?....

[Sweaty_Sock]

So you want more damage to mix with that shoulder-bash spam?....

I warned you, here come the angry villagers with their burning torches

Warden is one of the worst heros at the moment, but if you say anything stop, duck and cover

[Vakris_One]

It can only come from one direction, carries no hyper armour, has no soft feints, and does less damage than the kensei version that carried greater range, soft feint into GB or a hyper armour softfeint heavy or light mixup (or you can just feint it). It also is to slow & has too long a feint window that if you just throw a side light with most characters the moment he shows orange its happy days goodbye stamina mr warden

Its weaker and slower and carries less options than most comparable moves (highlander/kenei/shugo)

Don't dare mention a warden buff though, or the villagers will get out their pitchforks

Thing is the Warden doesn't warrant a straight up buff. He needs to be tweaked which means the buff(s) he gets needs to be balanced out with a slight yet reasonable nerf to his shoulder bash. You can't just give him Kensei's heavy finisher damage and soft feint options without lowering the power of his shoulder bash as that would make him very overpowered. He already has the best chase tool in the game and one of the best openers and mind game tools via SB.

Warden would benefit from getting a more versatile kit with better options from his unblockable finisher as that would make him less of a one trick pony. In turn it would make him more fun to play as and fight against. But to do that they need to rebalance the power away from his shoulder bash a bit. A good way to do that would be to give him variable feint timings on his unblockable finisher, a soft feint into GB and raise its damage to 45. But in exchange he can no longer get a top heavy guarranteed from a fully charged shoulder bash. He can only get a side heavy from a fully charged bash.

Something like this would equalise the power of his kit and spread it around more equally across his moves. As a result it'll become more viable to use more of the Warden's kit, especially at high levels where SB is the only viable move he can make.

[Sweaty_Sock]

I said all these things waaaay ago in the feedback thread - fyi he can't catch anyone who rolls away from shoulder - even cancel into dash forward 'best chase' will miss the roll due to tracking....

he SHOULDNT be able to cancel bash past a certain point (this point guarantees the heavy but is all or nothing)

1) Side lights are a joke, at this point you pay double stamina for 18 damage, just get rid of it if its that weak and make a 12 damage 500 ms attack for the left and right (edit: double would turn into a combo finisher as per below not chainable with bash...)
2) Side heavies need something - probably undodgable on the second heavy in combo
3) Cancelling a bash shouldn't be a flat 30 stamina! Bearing in mind im saying you can only do this before a point of no return
4) Give double light side combo off a bash (at 12 + 8 = 20) - this is a finisher, this means he has to either single light, bash, single light, bash etc. or take the double and end the chain (so no bash off the guaranteed light), keeping the spam damage down but allowing a flow of abilities.
5) First top heavy drop from 40 to 30 damage and give Hyper Armour, second has no hyperarmour but unblockable & up the damage to 45 - give the ability of most people to use chain finishers off a GB throw, give the second unblockable some form of soft feint (even if just to dodge or light attack)
6) top light 15 damage - remove guaranteed light on crushing counter
7) add a 'point of no return' to wardens shoulder charging - this would still guarantee a top heavy at max charge but couldn't be canceled at this charge so can be baited (and bear in mind top heavy would be only 30 damage now & this is how it worked in pre-rework to give you an idea of how this would reduce the volume of spam)
8) zone have a second swing that can be canceled - removal of minion killing animations makes killing minions hard so an impractical for combat but good for minions clearing second followup would be nice
9) slow the stupid dash forward heavy to a reasonable speed & make it track through rolls - allow this to be feinted

This would give back abit of the 'jack of all trades' feel rather than mr hold shoulderbash & see if they panic

[rottmeister]

I warned you, here come the angry villagers with their burning torches

Warden is one of the worst heros at the moment, but if you say anything stop, duck and cover

I'm not really the type to tell people they should look at "the tier list" but ermmmmmm you should really look at Setmyx's duel tier list if you think Warden is one of the worst heroes.

According to Setmyx he's S-tier in duels and right behind Black Prior who placed second. His lists are generally accepted by the competitive people.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gaY/edit#gid=0

I get it, we're all a bit biased towards our mains, but c'mon.... one of the worst, really?

[Sweaty_Sock]

I'm not really the type to tell people they should look at "the tier list" but ermmmmmm you should really look at Setmyx's duel tier list if you think Warden is one of the worst heroes.

According to Setmyx he's S-tier in duels and right behind Black Prior who placed second. His lists are generally accepted by the competitive people.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gaY/edit#gid=0

I get it, we're all a bit biased towards our mains, but c'mon.... one of the worst, really?

'Worst' is also subjective, it could mean also 'viable in the wrong way'

OP in one aspect (boring) lackluster in many others (painful)= one of the 'worst' - with every new hero the options to fight them are becoming increasingly 'cheese or die'

As you'll see this thread is about a lackluster piece of kit, which is most of the wardens kit, but a buff can't be justified because of a broken aspect - so yes, being forced down a linear one trick pony play style while the rest of the kit rots does in my mind = 'one of the worst'

[rottmeister]

'Worst' is also subjective, it could mean also 'viable in the wrong way'

OP in one aspect (boring) lackluster in many others (painful)= one of the 'worst' - with every new hero the options to fight them are becoming increasingly 'cheese or die'

As you'll see this thread is about a lackluster piece of kit, which is most of the wardens kit, but a buff can't be justified because of a broken aspect - so yes, being forced down a linear one trick pony play style while the rest of the kit rots does in my mind = 'one of the worst'

Okay, I misunderstood then. He's lackluster in terms of kit and painful to fight, but still very viable nonetheless.

Okay, yeah, I agree with that. Sorry to jump in out of nowhere, but people actually do be like that sometimes. I mean one of my friends who mains Berserker thinks that he's weaker now than before his rework and should be buffed so............... (don't tell him I told you this )