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To those talking about PvP, that is not the subject of this post. Read the whole thing. It is about the initial, freeplay, full world, storyline experience in PvE, when you first get the game (and, supposedly, in WT5 level experience at endgame eventually as well, I figure.)
I whole-heartedly agree with the original post. The game experience with TD2 is just not what it was with TD1. TD1 is far more refined, deep, rich, storied, and enjoyable than TD2 beta has been so far. This game, for lack of a better term, feels very hollow. And the "timid" play style, yeah...definitely not what I was expecting, not what I was hoping for, and really not very enjoyable. Getting flank-spammed with batons by "YOOUR MIINE!!" all the time gets tedious really, really fast...
Senior Member
well said, and I completely disagree.
I also want to feel like a normal person, only with better gear.
In freeroam I can easily take 5 red guys myself. Usually more if im not flanked. I find 1V5 is a good balance. If anything, I want to be challenged MORE in the open world. I want some purple guys and an occasional Gold boss here and there. Currently its too easy.
But what I like about it is that I NEED to play using cover, even against red enemies. it forces me to use tactics and sometimes retreat or use a skill I originally didn't intend on using.
It's pretty easy (Too easy, for my liking) but only if you use cover, and I feel this is what its supposed to be like.
It's not playing timid, IMO. It's playing in a more realistic approach. I love that. I dont want to breeze through the open world. I want to explore and be in tense combat.
For me, and that's how I see things, If combat is trivial and super easy than it's a grind or a chore. if it doesnt envoke feeling of tension than it isnt fulfilling and I just want to get it over with. But if combat is tense and getting out alive isn't guaranteed than its way more fun, and in order for it to be fun for me it needs to be challenging. So, if anything, I'd like the free roaming baddies to have a few purple (Veterans) in them and even gold. Kind of like the Pier areas in TD1. that was fun.
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Totally agree with OP.
I think the problem in here is the balance. If the devs want to shape D2 into a cover based shooting game, it is fine by me because I'm a sniper. In this case, NPCs should not come to you to flank you, sometime even go to your back, there won't be useable cover left. Don't get me wrong, there can be and should be enemy types that rush you and do CQB, but the rest should stay in their cover and maintain distance. But so far in the beta, ALL enemies come close to you, flank you from all angle and surround you, EVEN SNIPERS!
If you want to run back, nope, because enemies damage is way too high and with super accuracy, or our armor is just too rubbish, you will not make it.
I really can't see with such clever AI, how D2 can be a cover based shooting game?
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I have always been a very tactical, cover based player in TD1. The only "challenge" in TD2 is that your just tissue paper. You can watch a friendly and enemy NPC duke it out for minutes at a time, neither dying very easily, from cover. The moment you poke your head out from cover your armor is basically gone. The next time you are left with a sliver of health and another wave is on the way. The NPCs don't really seem to exhibit all that much intelligence. Hide in cover for a while, then slide-shifty-feet sideways slowly to the next cover. It's when they do the shifty-feet thing, where they are just raining bullets down on you, that they are fairly easily dropped, if you can stay out of the line of fire. But if they get you, well, they get you.
There isn't a lot of real intelligence in the NPCs. They feel dumber than TD1 NPCs, particularly the LMB, but even the Rikers. The challenge only really comes from you being super fragile and the need to very skillfully use cover. It's less enjoyable. I like using cover...but I want the enemies to be smart, not just overpowered.
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I disagree completely.
First off, you are judging the beta from a skewed perspective. You are used to your endgame build that is fully complete in TD1, and TD1 also didn't emphasize cover as much. You could run around and tank a huge amount of damage and had multiple ways to just heal to max health with the press of a button. They have changed it so you have to take things slower and use cover. Once you get used to that and how weapon handling was changed, the game is pretty easy. You need to think about your engagements more.
TTK and TTD is perfectly fine, you just need to be more tactical in your approach instead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMYu78CY6qQ
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I have 1600 hours in the first Division. So I am talking from experience and a genuine love of the original game. I was one of the first players to reach UG 40 during patch 1.3. So difficulty isn't an issue for me. But the way things are going in this beta I'm not sure I'm going to play tD2. The first one covers my needs just fine, and it doesn't have the horrible TTK that this game does. And let me make this abundantly clear. This TTK IS NOT due to some sort of bug. The TTK on enemies is 1.3 levels AFTER the shield icon disappears, not before. The shield just makes it worse.
The TTK against us would have been fine if the enemies had a TTK at about the same level as in The Division 1 post 1.4 imo. But they don't. Their TTK is up along the lines of Patch 1.2-3 (Underground) and we have 10% of the health/toughness we had back then, but no gear sets.
All they have to do, in my opinion, is reduce the TTK on the enemies down to 5-7 seconds, like it was in patch 1.4, and we're golden. If the game becomes too easy, add more enemies to encounters.
There's a serious disconnect between the health of the character, the health of the NPCs and the damage output of both. Like they didn't test this at all together. It's basically a re-run of The Division 1 up until patch 1.4. Unlike the first Division this game doesn't have the element of surprise, so to speak. People are vary of the product, and in it's current state it will tank hard at release imo.
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Agree, I want my MK17 to be able to put down those drone/ car bomb spammer as fast as i could
I think giving most NPC armored part (Ex: riot helmet on hyena melee) while lowering their health would solve the "bullet sponge" issues, since it will make player carefully aim their gun for weak spot instead of aiming on someone's head most of the time.
Senior Member
What do you mean?Originally Posted by Khayne_ Go to original post
If you can maintain fire on an enemy for 3 seconds in the beta - they're dead. even golden enemies. it's not that easy to get a direct LOS on enemies in the game since they take cover or others are firing at you at the same time, forcing YOU to take cover, or you need to reload, but in a 1V1 if you have a LMG you can kill golden regular NPCs in 3 seconds.
I only played TD1 for about 120 hours. That's it. Hardly a veteran.
In the private beta i have no issues in how enemies feel to take out. I find them easier with less HP and I even feel that taking out Elite enemies in the DZ feels a lot like killing other players in the DZ in terms of TTK. It feels fair to me. and i dont feel like a sheet of paper at all. I feel equal to the Elite enemies that are not juggernaughts. This is, IMO, the sweet spot.
And the reason I think I feel different than you is because im not used to TD1 as much. I am playing this game without misconceptions on how I used to feel in TD1. I am playing with fresh eyes and simply using cover, tactics and my skills... with a controller, mind you, which are already mediocre plus and nothing more.
I just don't treat this game like I did in TD1 but I play by the new rules, and the new rules are - You are on equal grounds as a single Elite NPC and you need to take good care not to expose yourself nor get shot too many times because armor is scarce, and this mentality gets me through just fine, with not grudges against the game's balance.
