Junior Member
Shugoki current problems:
All of his 'mixups' can be avoided by back dodge and roll.
Headbutt is 600ms which makes it basically useless in competitive.
Demon's Embrace has 2000ms recovery time is so broken that if you fail it you still can get punished by heroes that roll away.
He can't land an execution on guardbreak + heavy, that makes him worse for 4v4s specially in Breach since he lacks fast executions. JJ is fine with this issue because he's top tier in 4v4s...
Several Shugoki 4v4s feats are pretty bad, don't reinforce his character design and limits his gameplay too much.
Charge of the Oni imput is the same as dodge imput, you can end up rolling instead of perform it.
How to fix this:
Remove hyperarmor from his zone attack, make it undogable like Warlord's. Or give him a catch move.
Make Headbutt 500ms. There are charactes with 500ms bashes that guarantee damage on hit, this doesn't.
Reduce Demon's Embrace broken recovery time.
Make him able to land an execution on guardbreak + top heavy (remove its trow effect) while side heavys stay the same.
Feats: Remove Throw Farther and give him Body Count instead. Rework Rock Steady, it breaks heroes offense and its effects are already applied on revenge. Rework, remove or change Staggering Blow.
Change Charge of the Oni imput, to the guardbreak button like Raider's etc or to the sprint button like Shinobi's.
Also: Give him light/heavy heavy/light chains to make him sightly less predictable.
Junior Member
Senior Member
Don't forget arrow storm is dumb as hell. I like rock steady.Originally Posted by MetalAult Go to original post
When they took away his oos oni charge I just stopped playing him. He doesn't really have anything and is actually is a worse spot than he was before in dominion. Why?
1. In revenge if you got a gb on someone they where nearly guaranteed to be dead from a DE or an charged heavy.
2. His passive encouraged turtling so you would get revenge more often.
3. Getting GBs was easier with passive.
4. His OOL tech did serious damage in group fights.
5. His headbutt was guaranteed and did massive stamina depletion.
6. One shot demons embrace and the ability to pin.
The axe lady is pretty much what shugoki should have been. She even has the one shot.
Member
To be honest Shugoki was in a far better spot before the rework. This, this thing already falls behind in the roster and his potential is close to zero.
1) His Oni charge is still useless in most scenarios (most people are not dumb to stand near ledge while facing shugoki)
2) His lights are still a parry bait, he cannot even perform double light or heavy+ light mixup for some reason
3) Headbutt is a joke
4) He is still doomed to stand on place and try to his random heavies with the exception that he can charge them now (wow).
5) No dodge attack or fast counterplay whatsoever (crushing counter, dodge counter).
6) DE cannot pin anymore, anyone can interrupt it
My suggestion is that you should seriously give him an option to counterplay with a dodge (EVERYONE else in the roster has at least one dodge attack, COME ON). The best option would actually be the dodge counter similar to valk when you automatically block the desired side + a follow-up of course which can be a low-damage dealing attack that can be chained into heavies. This is my vision that wouldn't break the game and make many Goki players such as myself very happy. Think about it, really. Thank you
Senior Member
I don't think trying to fix goki makes a difference. People have been writing how to fix shugoki for years and the end result is in line with ubi vision but not an actual playable character. They build there's massive flaws in their reworks instead of letting the fault lay with player mistakes.
shugoki can only predict and not pressure. Shugoki can't punish mistakes very well like oos but he can be massively punished on his recuperations and going oos.
So yea trying to rebuild shugoki is pointless. Ubi doesn't listen. They just do what they do. For example shugoki needed an opener. It was/is one of his major flaws. But did he get an opener? No. Ubi said screw what every shugoki main in saying to do with shugoki were not going to get rid of any of his flaws and just squew him to our vision. Who cares if he is better. That's not the point of the rework really anyways. 2 years waiting for a rework only for them to hijack it to serve their vision rather than his utility.
Junior Member
Just a few points from a against perspective
1. His light with hyper armor is faster and more protected ie safer than normal.
2. His demons embrace heals him and gives stamina and tracks things which when done by a avg to skilled player tilts any fight there way
3. A lot of the heavies now move as fast as the lighter characters on certain moves which takes away the light characters advantage.
Senior Member
1. Not true every other player can combo into other light attacks making the HA dominate the initial engagement but not the damage output probability of light spam. I'm fairly certain a redictive preemptive counter attacker beats a HA light or a deflect to which are only in the light heros (vernacular) capability .Originally Posted by End-er_ Go to original post
2. No high skilled player would attempt a demons embrace on another equally skilled player. You just be handing out free gbs.
3. Why should a light hero have an advantage over a heavy hero? Maybe im reading it wrong. I'm not going to get into this to much because I'll say deflects, better Dodge, and counterattacks then you'll say reflex guard which I'll agree with. So long story short, assasins should have static guard or heavies should have reflex guard.
Junior Member
To sum up this thread you have two types of people the ppl who use Goki and those who fight him.
The users either say you broke a original character with the rework or they say he’s still weak. One wants his unique armor and moves back which is possible with a slight variation. The other wants you to enhance his moves ie DE undodgeable so they can continue his combos without interruption or give him the abilities of other heroes so they won’t have to change of their playstyle for different matchups. If you do decide to go this route you’ll set a bad precedent plus a character who negates the point of having different characters.
The people who fight him have a valid argument as well. They’re now having to fight people who pick Goki not because they are skilled but because they know you can easily make people rage or give up against him. One they hit his combo repeatedly or get someone next to a wall so they can rinse and repeat. They are calling for nerfs or in some cases adequate balancing ie stopping DE from replenishing both stamina and health so repeat isn’t possible.
I believe Ive touched everything anyone can say in this thread so Players, Devs, and Mods here you go.
Junior Member
I’ll agree with points two and three. I just didn’t wanna say the second one like that. A swapping of the guards would balance the Assassins and Heavies. On point one would you mind flushing out your point so I can understand it better.Originally Posted by CRIMS0NM0NKEY Go to original post
Senior Member
1. I stopped playing shugoki when they Nerfed his oni knockdown on oos recently. When Devs Nerf a none guaranteed way to get damage to an opponent because the player made a horrible mistake, I'm done.
2. Shugoki never had an opener so he has literally no way of damaging a player at decent levels. Everything he does is easily reactable. This might change with the dodge nerf.
3. Shugs DE is powerful when stuck in a corner so I agree with that but whose fault is that really? People should be aware of their environment while fighting. A shug has always been more powerful near a wall.
4. I personally think all heros should have reflex guards so we can stop all this unblockable, HA, bash, lightspam stuff and slow the pace of the fight down.
5. I'd be OK with them nerfing the dodge tracking on shugs DE if they made some other concessions. Like give back Shugoki's damage values, give him an opener like a guaranteed light from a headbutt, give back his oos oni charge knockdown. Or give him a guaranteed GB off a non guaranteed headbutt that gives him a DBall only to reset the fight. Its only 25 damage I believe.
6. I played shugoki before because he felt powerful with his passive HA, his guaranteed headbutt, his demon ball, his damage, his revenge game... Even his one shot DE gave him an epic win feel. Now there is nothing about him that feels powerful or epic. Even if you beat someone to the ground it isn't because your good it's because they suck. Having to constantly pick at an opponents health when it's nearly impossible to get damage in is just cumbersome. I liked the old shugoki because you choose that perfect time to attack and when you hit it did massive damage. I liked him because at moment, if you could turtle through the opponents onslaught, you could turn the tables. I liked his bossness. But what I don't like about him or the new one is that he has no openers. He still has no way of forcing an opponent to attack. No way of forcing a trade. An opponent can just Turtle up and wait for shugs horrible recovery or there can be a staring contest just like before. It's a stupid rework.
