If Ubi does not nerf the biggest balance problem i will be done soon | Forums

[Liduras]

The duel and ranked modes have been destroyed for a long time because of one overbuffed move, Warden's shoulder bash. Me and some of my friends are almost done with the game because the only game modes without gank/feat spam are unplayable.

Some Warden mains will probably say "git gud", but there is nothing to learn against Warden's shoulder bash. It can not be dodged on reaction to Warden's movement (proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitive...o_sb_movement/ ), the partially charged SB has no certain timing and the window to charge the SB is really wide. It is totally unreactable and has almost no stamina cost.

The only thing a Warden player needs to do is to run away or back dodge and spam the SB from long distance. This make the duels a guessing game where skill is not involved. And Warden has a high chance of winning that guessing game. Some people say that Warden has negative matchups and Nobushi and Valkyrie can counter the short range SB, but his long range SB is a skilless guessing game against everyone.

Don't give me that "jUsT rEaD yOuR oPpEnEnT" excuse. The matchmaking system matches random players on the world. You can't know anything about your oppenent in the beggining and you can't read his mind by seeing him doing only a few SB unless he does a simple pattern instead of choosing randomly. It is only guessing, and guessing does not involve skill.

There is also that "tUrTlE mEtA" excuse. Unreactable moves are not a problem. But Warden's SB is not only an anti turtle move, but it is an anti everything move. It can be spammed nonstop with it's almost 0 stamina cost. Even the SB+double light attack combo only costs ~20% stamina (most of the stamina cost is from double light attack). It is also a long range guessing game. Unreactable moves should not have long ranges. Warden players who spam SB does not need to defend against the move sets of the other heroes because they keep their oppenents busy with the SB guessing game spam.

There is always some of those trolls who abuse the OP things and defend them on forums. In this game they are Warden mains. I am tired of arguing with these trolls. In the end they have always got out of arguments and tell us to magically read the minds of Warden players to counter it. If you want to start the same argument for a millionth time just don't waste your time. I won't reply because you will end up with no argument and tell us to use some supernatural powers to read minds anyway, just like in the countless threads in the Reddit and Steam forums.

Me and my friends already stopped playing. Ubi, if you don't want to fix your game, just tell us now so we will immediately uninstall instead of waiting for a fix that will never happen.

[Jacques-Le-Coq]

Its not the spam thats the problem, its possible to dodge it uncharged and after a full charge, not very hard tbh. The biggest problem with the shoulder charge is that HE CAN CANCEL IT ANY TIME DURING THE CHARGING PROCESS, even after he slightly charges forward he can cancel it. That is a problem, be cause he can always force a reaction, and no matter the reaction, he can counter it and always come out on top. His Shoulder bash needs to have a point during the charge where he has to commit to it, currently its overpowered.

[Velentix]

The problem is how much of his kit revolves around his bash. An unfortunate way to build any kit. My problem with his bash is the range, and the cancel after he starts it. Nerf the range and remove the post moving cancel, and I think he is left with a strong tool that doesnt make the rest of the game on easy mode.

[UbiInsulin]

There is always some of those trolls who abuse the OP things and defend them on forums. In this game they are Warden mains. I am tired of arguing with these trolls. In the end they have always got out of arguments and tell us to magically read the minds of Warden players to counter it. If you want to start the same argument for a millionth time just don't waste your time. I won't reply because you will end up with no argument and tell us to use some supernatural powers to read minds anyway, just like in the countless threads in the Reddit and Steam forums.

Me and my friends already stopped playing. Ubi, if you don't want to fix your game, just tell us now so we will immediately uninstall instead of waiting for a fix that will never happen.

I've passed on a ton of feedback on Warden's SB, as you might imagine. It's certainly the topic that gets brought up most in balance discussions about the hero. That being said, I'm reading that second-to-last paragraph as "Anyone who disagrees with me is a troll," which is a bit much. Hopefully we can have room for nuanced discussion here.

[Redkey.]

They can't fix this coz game is already dead. For years. It's just a life support.

[Redkey.]

What the hell shoulder? What about timings that do not match the capabilities of the Internet. What about the GB, which should work against the turtles, but works against the killers? What about GB which, the only one in this game, has no direction needed? What about Revenge that turns any fight into idiocy? What about huge dumb tracking from prehistoric console slashers? What about a damage from HeavyBombs without Friendly Fire? What about balancing a characters that looks like they was chosen by spinning the bottle? Etc, etc..... shoulders

[Hormly]

Sadly at this late point in the game you should either accept it for what it is or move on

[Redkey.]

Considering that this game started from the p2p servers, and during the year they advised angry players how to meditate - it was late from the very beginning.

[EvoX.]

I agree. Wardens can basically control fights by staying mid range and using only SB to try and bait out a dodge for the fully charged hit or the cancel into Valiant Breakthrough. Once you start not dodging or trying to close the distance you're hit with the uncharged SB and the whole process starts again.

Warden's optimal game is third in worst design only to Warlord and Shinobi's out of lock spam. Those two are going away soon, so he'll be there...

It's not going to change, I'm sure. To Stefan and his team of chimps, this is probably top level game design.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

The fully charged shoulderbash should be feintable up until the point the movement starts, not during the movement. In return, he needs some improvements on standard chain attacks, they are all quite useless. A delayable feint on heavies at the very least.