Dear carebears, what would it take to get you to play PvP? | Forums

[Mars388502]

Thank you for your advices Vikk, but all in all I have been doing exactly what you described for the last 2 weeks.

The thing is that even higher Tier (between prestige 20 and 30) tend to play individualy (in general assassin or stalker class), don't bother reviving you and are capable to blame you when they die... But, well they're people.

In general I end up with a support class, because otherwise your "teamates", get no idea of what they have in front, can't get revived and often get pawned by campers (specially in outskirts) and

Personnally, I love maps with a real objective like sabotage or rescue (elimination is just pointless in my opinion).

Maybe to bring more people to the PvP, the number of players should be increased (from 4 to 8 players on a team). This could create more balanced teams (this afternoon I ended up in a team of level 1 to 4 against prestiges 15 to 30). Having larger teams would be the opportunity to use more support class, lower levels could also find it more rewarding (getting pawned after crawling for 10min can be frustrating).

I'm originaly a Battlefield players, for me the team is everything, I sincerely feel bad when I can't revive someone. Victory and defeat is achieved in team

[Ghost-Ami]

Thank you for your advices Vikk, but all in all I have been doing exactly what you described for the last 2 weeks.

The thing is that even higher Tier (between prestige 20 and 30) tend to play individualy (in general assassin or stalker class), don't bother reviving you and are capable to blame you when they die... But, well they're people.

In general I end up with a support class, because otherwise your "teamates", get no idea of what they have in front, can't get revived and often get pawned by campers (specially in outskirts) and

Personnally, I love maps with a real objective like sabotage or rescue (elimination is just pointless in my opinion).

Maybe to bring more people to the PvP, the number of players should be increased (from 4 to 8 players on a team). This could create more balanced teams (this afternoon I ended up in a team of level 1 to 4 against prestiges 15 to 30). Having larger teams would be the opportunity to use more support class, lower levels could also find it more rewarding (getting pawned after crawling for 10min can be frustrating).

I'm originaly a Battlefield players, for me the team is everything, I sincerely feel bad when I can't revive someone. Victory and defeat is achieved in team

It should be noted that prestige level doesn't mean anything. I'm prestige 16, and I'm total rubbish.

The team balancing that's really needed is a feature that looks at KDR and WLR and balances the teams based on that. People who get several kills every match and win most of the time need to be evenly distributed so that both teams have a chance despite there being a few of us who can't even break 1.0 on either metric.

I realise this will involve some complicated maths---especially when some people squad up and thus can't be separated for balance---but if Ubi are serious about keeping people from getting discouraged they'll figure out a way.

For my part I think I'm more like you than these solo types you describe. I typically can't win matches on my own unless I get really lucky and know it all too well, so I always, always, always prioritise revives and despise selfish players who do not. Next priority is trying to keep people together and get intel before charging in blind. Getting kills is almost always last except for when I'm trying to fulfil a daily challenge that requires a number of kills or a certain kind of kills.

So, again, as I've said many times in this thread and elsewhere we need more people like us who want to play as a team and play the objective to dilute the number of selfish killmongers who just PvP to feel like a badarse and put others down.

If everyone with complaints in this thread got on and PvPed regularly that would probably be enough to shift the balance a bit already, not to mention everyone else in this forum who avoids PvP because of similar reasons. I know it sounds like a sappy platitude, but we have to be the change we want to see.

For my part I'll keep playing Ghost War and trying to raise the overall quality of play there, and, hey, I hope at least some of you decide to do so as well. ))))

[Ubi-Lucipus]

Personally, PvP has never been my thing, some people are just solely campaign players, myself included.

I have been in the Dark Zone in The Division but purely because my team mates really wanted to go for one reason or another and needed my help

[Hugo-FOU]

Hi Ami, honestly I don’t think there is anything that could get me to PvP. I just don’t enjoy it. I’ve tried, but I just never find it fun. Even in the Division’s Survival where you had to compete with other players for resources without actually entering into battle with them ruined the experience. It’s just a question of taste.

[Mongol_Horde]

If everyone with complaints in this thread got on and PvPed regularly that would probably be enough to shift the balance a bit already, not to mention everyone else in this forum who avoids PvP because of similar reasons. I know it sounds like a sappy platitude, but we have to be the change we want to see.

With all due respect, this reminds me of the western medical approach of treating the symptoms (lack of PVPers), not the cause (**** PVPers ruining the experience), instead of using the eastern approach of treating the cause and then the symptoms will go away.

The problem is not about quantity or ratio of good and bad people. It's solely about the bad element. I doubt we're ever going to hear someone say "Man, PVP sucked today, because everyone was so nice and helpful, and really cool to be around!" The bad element are doing what they are doing and getting away with it simply because they can. To increase PVP popularity, game companies need to find more (foolproof) ways to remove (not lessen) the bad elements from game play on their servers. Deal with the source of the problem, not the symptoms. Maybe that isn't completely possible just yet or maybe they're not trying hard enough, I don't know, but an effective solution is required if they want more people playing PVP and being happy and satisfied while they're doing it.

The solution of adding more good people into the mix might lessen the chances that some people may run into the bad element, but it doesn't change the fact that the bad element is still there, and you WILL run into them eventually. Adding more good people doesn't eliminate the problem, it adds to it. It enables the dicks further by providing them with more (willing) fodder to abuse. They probably figure "well, if you didn't like it, you wouldn't be here, so what I'm doing is ok, and if it's ok, then I'll continue to do it."

From their perspective, adding more good people increases the chances that they have more opportunities to have fun doing the crap they do. They feed off of abusing good people (or anyone for that matter). Without any controls in place, populating PVP with more good people simply restocks the buffet for the bad ones. And what stops them from then inviting more of their kind to join in the feast now that there's more than enough food to go around? The ratio of good to bad then neutralizes and we're back at square one again. That's what happens when you treat the symptoms, not the source.

People say that there are long waits to start games due to the lack of players. Remember that this affects the bad element too, so add more good people, and you end up making them happy that they don't have to wait either. "Oooh more fresh meat has finally arrived!"

"...we have to be the change we want to see."

I like this line. Normally, it would apply if we would be setting an example and there's a potential for others to follow, but not in this instance. The change we want to see is not in us, but in them (the dicks), and considering that they're more than happy with the way they are, they won't change. Why should they when they're having so much fun at the expense of willing fodder, and they're allowed to get away with it? The only change we can probably make is to become like them. The only choice we have is to play with them or not, and it's obvious that many have chosen not to.

I'm not against PVP. I'd love to play PVP and have wanted to do so for years, but just won't do it because of the dicks, as I've said before. It's them I'm against, not PVP itself. The closest I came to PVP was closed maps with people I knew, and a few events in a flying game where things were controlled and (most) everyone respected each other.

Fix the problem, not the symptoms, and then PVP might become something a lot more people want to participate in.

"Luke, I am (not going to be) your fodder!"


Mongol Horde out.

[devores]

So Ive mentioned before why I dont do PVP, especially Ghost War. I play for fun and do not care one way or another if I "win" or not. This thread got me thinking and I logged in and played for about an hour the other night. Thinking to myself maybe Im being to criticle.

I will now say that is probably the last time I ever log into Ghost War. Within that hour I had a kid (I say kid because I would hope an adult would be a little better than this) threaten to do things to my mother and scream at me all because I had no idea what I was doing. This same kid yelled at another player because they explained the tactic they were going to use (great communication and attempt at team play) and the "veteran" player screamed "Thats the dumbest **** Ive ever heard. Any real player would laugh at you for trying that." and guess what. The other team used that same exact tactic and owned us. Good on them though. But, the constant berating and name calling and attempt to stroke thier ego is just too much. I have better things to do. I did try to join a different group and through sheer luck this **** ended up in the same one. So Im done. The PVP community will need to drastically change for me to play again. Im sorry yall have longer wait times but I dare say yall are doing it to yourselves. If PVP needs more players start policing yourselves and maybe us casual players will pop in more often.

[MikeWeeks]

I bounce into the GW forum every so often, just to get a flavor - it ain't pretty IMO. Looks like Ubisoft finally bounced (banned?) one [deplorable] within the past hours, as his posts with videos have disappeared. Whether he's gone from PvP I don't know. However I learned a new term from the PvP players - "tea-bagging". Another thumbs down.

GW is, again, a completely different environment, and I assume it was designed that way for a purpose. Simply adding new Recruits to be cannon fodder isn't going to change how some folks go about "enjoying" gaming - i.e., being PvP dicks.

I recent thread I found interesting on this subject:

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...ying-Ghost-War

There's another, older thread, on the subject of what Ubisoft does or doesn't do, regarding the cheaters - which apparently is more common on the PC - just great ...

I don't acquire any game for "its rewards", I do so with the hope of enjoying playing the game for as long as I care to in my retirement years, and being a gaming community of me, myself, and I, that by default lends itself to PvE.

Heck, attempting some co-op is a bit of a chore given time zones and people's schedules, but that at least offers a much more controlled environment for the players of similar interests.

So again kudos to Blue in setting up a private PvP session, as I'm willing to try it to at least get a favor of the overall environment - and actually to see if my mic works. Also Devores last two sentences really says it all.

[Ghost-Ami]

With all due respect, this reminds me of the western medical approach of treating the symptoms (lack of PVPers), not the cause (**** PVPers ruining the experience), instead of using the eastern approach of treating the cause and then the symptoms will go away.

The problem is not about quantity or ratio of good and bad people. It's solely about the bad element. I doubt we're ever going to hear someone say "Man, PVP sucked today, because everyone was so nice and helpful, and really cool to be around!" The bad element are doing what they are doing and getting away with it simply because they can. To increase PVP popularity, game companies need to find more (foolproof) ways to remove (not lessen) the bad elements from game play on their servers. Deal with the source of the problem, not the symptoms. Maybe that isn't completely possible just yet or maybe they're not trying hard enough, I don't know, but an effective solution is required if they want more people playing PVP and being happy and satisfied while they're doing it.

The solution of adding more good people into the mix might lessen the chances that some people may run into the bad element, but it doesn't change the fact that the bad element is still there, and you WILL run into them eventually. Adding more good people doesn't eliminate the problem, it adds to it. It enables the dicks further by providing them with more (willing) fodder to abuse. They probably figure "well, if you didn't like it, you wouldn't be here, so what I'm doing is ok, and if it's ok, then I'll continue to do it."

From their perspective, adding more good people increases the chances that they have more opportunities to have fun doing the crap they do. They feed off of abusing good people (or anyone for that matter). Without any controls in place, populating PVP with more good people simply restocks the buffet for the bad ones. And what stops them from then inviting more of their kind to join in the feast now that there's more than enough food to go around? The ratio of good to bad then neutralizes and we're back at square one again. That's what happens when you treat the symptoms, not the source.

People say that there are long waits to start games due to the lack of players. Remember that this affects the bad element too, so add more good people, and you end up making them happy that they don't have to wait either. "Oooh more fresh meat has finally arrived!"

"...we have to be the change we want to see."

I like this line. Normally, it would apply if we would be setting an example and there's a potential for others to follow, but not in this instance. The change we want to see is not in us, but in them (the dicks), and considering that they're more than happy with the way they are, they won't change. Why should they when they're having so much fun at the expense of willing fodder, and they're allowed to get away with it? The only change we can probably make is to become like them. The only choice we have is to play with them or not, and it's obvious that many have chosen not to.

I'm not against PVP. I'd love to play PVP and have wanted to do so for years, but just won't do it because of the dicks, as I've said before. It's them I'm against, not PVP itself. The closest I came to PVP was closed maps with people I knew, and a few events in a flying game where things were controlled and (most) everyone respected each other.

Fix the problem, not the symptoms, and then PVP might become something a lot more people want to participate in.

"Luke, I am (not going to be) your fodder!"


Mongol Horde out.

Social change happens when a critical mass of people decide to do something in a more civilised way or embrace more progressive values. They will then naturally exert pressure on the regressive elements. This pressure will, despite occasional flareups of regressive fervour, drive uncivilised behaviour into the shadows.

It will not necessarily change minds, but when the undesirable attitudes and behaviours provoke opprobrium and ostracisation they will slowly disappear from the collective consciousness of the social group as fewer and fewer people remain willing to exhibit them and endure the backlash.

At some point the bad attitudes or behaviours will become marginal or even nonexistent because it won't even occur to people to go there, such things having become no longer a common and visible part of their social group.

So that's the blueprint for fixing PvP when the problems with it are social rather than technical and cannot be practically regulated by Ubi or any other developer in any other game. You fill the pool of PvPers with decent and mature human beings who do not tolerate the bad behaviour of what are currently more typical PvPers.

The deplorables do as they do because (a) it's how most people behave in PvP and (b) no one stands up to them often or in sufficient numbers. They consider PvP a safe space to act like monsters.

If we deny them this safe space by saturating the PvP pool with our basic human decency and calling out any misbehaviour we see it will begin the necessary process of purging bad behaviour through peer pressure. There will be rebels here and there, but fewer badly behaved PvPers will be willing to abuse anyone if there's a significant chance of pushback from the decent people.

This is how you cure the disease. It's not an easy process, and it requires every one of us with a conscience to stand up and speak up and not let any misbehaviour slide, but it's how we've advanced as a species for millennia, and it's as true of deplorables in PvP as it is in any other social group.

[MikeWeeks]

So it's gone from:

"So my question is this, those of you who refuse to play Ghost War: How rewarding would it have to be to get you to play it? A prestige crate every challenge? A prestige crate every match? Maybe there's no amount of reward that could get you to PvP?"

to:

"This is how you cure the disease. It's not an easy process, and it requires every one of us with a conscience to stand up and speak up and not let any misbehaviour slide, but it's how we've advanced as a species for millennia, and it's as true of deplorables in PvP as it is in any other social group."

a social crusade of some kind? That's why folks should now start playing GW?

[Ghost-Ami]

So it's gone from:

"So my question is this, those of you who refuse to play Ghost War: How rewarding would it have to be to get you to play it? A prestige crate every challenge? A prestige crate every match? Maybe there's no amount of reward that could get you to PvP?"

to:

"This is how you cure the disease. It's not an easy process, and it requires every one of us with a conscience to stand up and speak up and not let any misbehaviour slide, but it's how we've advanced as a species for millennia, and it's as true of deplorables in PvP as it is in any other social group."

a social crusade of some kind? That's why folks should now start playing GW?

Well, as much as I wanted to focus on what Ubi could do to fix the problem of low player count in Ghost War---like increasing prestige earnings or whatever---the vast majority of complainants in this thread seem more focused on the bad behaviour of most of the current pool of PvPers.

I can't say I really disagree with these concerns, but it's not really something Ubi can do anything about, it's something we've got to sort out ourselves. This sort of change has to come from within the Ghost War playerbase rather than be enforced from above by Ubi.

Authority always creates more resentment and resistance than peer pressure does.