Weapon Skills for Next Game | Forums

[Virtual-Chris]

Here's an idea for implementing weapon skills for the next game...

Of course, Tier Mode has weapon levelling for damage, but is at best an over-simplification and and worst, unrealistic.

Things that improve as you get more familiar and train with a firearm should include things like:
- Reload speed
- Accuracy/Sway
- Handling and Recoil Control
- Draw speed
- ADS speed or target acquisition speed

It would be nice if the next game allowed players to invest in developing skills in a weapon and it improved items like the above.

[LoneSpymaster]

Please no.

No more skill trees for Ghost Recon!!

[El_Cuervacho]

Please no.

No more skill trees for Ghost Recon!!

Indeed.

[AI BLUEFOX]

The original enabled you to increase the skills and attributes of the members of the Ghosts. Weapons, stealth, endurance and leadership could all be increased as you earned points through mission completion. The weapons skill improved accuracy and aiming and the reticule closed down quicker.

I like the idea of improving the soldiers in some way as it invests a feeling of progress as you, the player, progress through the game. Obviously that being a light touch, because as soon as you get into RPG levels of XP harvesting where improving the soldier becomes the point of the game instead of an enhancement to it, then it would lose its meaning.

[Ghost-Ami]

I'd strip out all sense of player character progression and focus instead on plot and world progression.

While it's true that a soldier will become more proficient with more operational experience I'd say this already happens on the player's end as they improve in their ability to play the game and does not need to be reflected in gear acquisition or skill tree unlocks.

A full armoury with every weapon and gadget ought to be available immediately for our elite operators, and nothing should require looting, unlocking, or levelling up.

An inventory with discreet space/weight for weapons, armour, gadgets, throwables, et cetera is a must along with an agility/encumberance mechanic based on how much of that inventory the player chooses to fill.

To provide a more authentic sense of progression the world should change in response to the player's actions but not in such a way as to leave areas of it empty or boring. Areas should be conquerable for allied forces at which point those areas may remain dangerous via insurgency and attempts to reconquer them from without.

Character relationships should develop such that both companions and other NPCs treat you differently based on things you've said, actions you've taken, objectives you've accomplished, acts of heroism or villainy you've committed.

Above all the game should become harder as you progress rather than easier, and the game's climax should be apocalyptic in narrative significance and gameplay challenge.

[Virtual-Chris]

Look, I’m not a fan of a government funded Tier 1 operator having to develop essential skills or chase around for gear either... this isn’t Far Cry.

What I also don’t like is that I cannot specialize or develop proficiency with any of my weapons. I’m just as effective as anyone else with every weapon in the game. Someone proficient with an AR-15 shouldn’t be able to speed load an AK-47 unless they train with that weapon and develop that skill. And someone well skilled is going to be way more lethal than someone who just picked up a new firearm.

So sure, operators can start with specialization in a weapon of choice, but then let me choose what other weapons I want to develop skills in.

This goes for the bad guys as well. New recruits might be noobs with their weapons while veterans are likely to be way more lethal. Instead, what we have today in Tier Mode is even a scmuck with dual Uzis is just as lethal (actually doubly so) as a veteran Sicario with an M4.

I’m not sure why some people think a Tier 1 operator has nothing more to learn.

[Ghost-Ami]

Look, I’m not a fan of a government funded Tier 1 operator having to develop essential skills or chase around for gear either... this isn’t Far Cry.

What I also don’t like is that I cannot specialize or develop proficiency with any of my weapons. I’m just as effective as anyone else with every weapon in the game. Someone proficient with an AR-15 shouldn’t be able to speed load an AK-47 unless they train with that weapon and develop that skill. And someone well skilled is going to be way more lethal than someone who just picked up a new firearm.

So sure, operators can start with specialization in a weapon of choice, but then let me choose what other weapons I want to develop skills in.

This goes for the bad guys as well. New recruits might be noobs with their weapons while veterans are likely to be way more lethal. Instead, what we have today in Tier Mode is even a scmuck with dual Uzis is just as lethal (actually doubly so) as a veteran Sicario with an M4.

I’m not sure why some people think a Tier 1 operator has nothing more to learn.

Characters should be differentiated by the loadout and tactics they choose to employ and the personality they display and decisions they make in the story, not by their "builds". It is not realistic to expect them to learn skills over the course of a mission or campaign that take hundreds of hours of dedicated practice to acquire to an acceptable level of proficiency.

If you really, really, really want "specialisation" hardwired into your character then perhaps the real solution is to allow you to pick a few platforms or patterns at the beginning of the game that represent the weapon systems your character is most familiar with, then nerf the character's use of weapon systems that do not have similar ergonomics.

[Virtual-Chris]

Characters should be differentiated by the loadout and tactics they choose to employ and the personality they display and decisions they make in the story, not by their "builds". It is not realistic to expect them to learn skills over the course of a mission or campaign that take hundreds of hours of dedicated practice to acquire to an acceptable level of proficiency.

If you really, really, really want "specialisation" hardwired into your character then perhaps the real solution is to allow you to pick a few platforms or patterns at the beginning of the game that represent the weapon systems your character is most familiar with, then nerf the character's use of weapon systems that do not have similar ergonomics.

Why are you so adverse to skill development? Is it your sense of realism? Or you don’t like questing for skill points etc?

On the realism front, I think if you ask any real operator if they are constantly learning new skills, trade craft, and optimizations, I bet they would say “hell yes!”. It doesn’t matter what field or trade you’re in, you’re always gaining some proficiency. Any tradesman who’s been at it for years is several times more effective with their tools than someone trying it for the first time. A skilled carpenter can’t just pick up a pipe wrench and work like a seasoned plumber... but in this game you can.

It follows that if I have trained my entire career with an M4 or an AK-47 or a <insert weapon here> I’m not going to be instantly effective with a completely different platform as soon as I pick it up. I might not even know how to switch off the safety, never mind reload in 2 seconds. Sure, it’s feasible that an operator knows at least a few common weapon types, but are they as proficient with a U100 as they are with the M4 they trained with for countless hours? I doubt it.

If you’re just against any kind of skill point quests, then you can stick with your starting load out and be happy. No one is forcing you to specialize in new weapons.

[Ghost-Ami]

Why are you so adverse to skill development? Is it your sense of realism? Or you don’t like questing for skill points etc?

On the realism front, I think if you ask any real operator if they are constantly learning new skills, trade craft, and optimizations, I bet they would say “hell yes!”. It doesn’t matter what field or trade you’re in, you’re always gaining some proficiency. Any tradesman who’s been at it for years is several times more effective with their tools than someone trying it for the first time. A skilled carpenter can’t just pick up a pipe wrench and work like a seasoned plumber... but in this game you can.

It follows that if I have trained my entire career with an M4 or an AK-47 or a <insert weapon here> I’m not going to be instantly effective with a completely different platform as soon as I pick it up. I might not even know how to switch off the safety, never mind reload in 2 seconds. Sure, it’s feasible that an operator knows at least a few common weapon types, but are they as proficient with a U100 as they are with the M4 they trained with for countless hours? I doubt it.

If you’re just against any kind of skill point quests, then you can stick with your starting load out and be happy. No one is forcing you to specialize in new weapons.

If you don't believe me ask any of the other vets here, they will tell you that you don't just "pick up some skills" during the course of a single deployment.

This is not how a soldier learns to use new weapon systems or any other skills. You cannot develop the necessary muscle memory without hundreds, even thousands of hours of practice. I cannot even begin to quantify the amount of time and effort and agony it takes to get good at anything from shooting to room clearing to jumping out of aeroplanes.

What's realistic and addresses your desire for specialisation is my suggestion that you choose a few weapon systems at the beginning of a playthrough to be the platforms you know how to use in your bones, then your use of other platforms with different ergonomics is nerfed.

We agree on the basic premise that our characters should not be equally proficient with all weapons, but I can't accept the unrealistic prospect of a tier one operator "learning on the job" when every moment in combat in the physical world rests on a foundation of months, even years of dedicated training before and then between deployments.

[LoneSpymaster]

The original enabled you to increase the skills and attributes of the members of the Ghosts. Weapons, stealth, endurance and leadership could all be increased as you earned points through mission completion. The weapons skill improved accuracy and aiming and the reticule closed down quicker.
I like the idea of improving the soldiers in some way as it invests a feeling of progress as you, the player, progress through the game. Obviously that being a light touch, because as soon as you get into RPG levels of XP harvesting where improving the soldier becomes the point of the game instead of an enhancement to it, then it would lose its meaning.

Yes, it was a mistake then, it is still a mistake now. It is one of the most unrealistic things, this game has, bullet resistence, drone stealth and guess what? You are force to use all that stupid stuff on Fallen Ghosts. Still waiting for a fix for that but devs seem to like emotes more.

It shouldn't have any kind of skills whatsoever, the idea should’ve died with Ghost Recon and now it should die with Wildlands.

The first one didn't have flashbangs or smoke grenades, should Wildlands copy that as well? OH WAIT A MINUTE.

Instead of the devs wasting time taking the bad ideas from the first Ghost Recon it should add real PVE modes (as Ghost Mode could’ve easily been extra options for the main game), like firefight, recon or defense, which are modes that have been available since the first Ghost Recon.

No skills = better game
No need to say more because @ non-exist-ent said it all. Take notes Ubisoft.