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I still think it won't be of any worth even just to see how the Wu Lin placed. Because of a) how long they left JJ's desynced light animations thus artificially pushing up his statistical strength and b) on consoles all of the Wu Lin are far stronger than they are on PC and that would distort the data if the platforms are left jumbled together.Originally Posted by EvoX. Go to original post
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Yeah Nobu and Mushas Placements were very surprising.
Also who makes those reddit tier lists? I mean im a primary proponent of the buff musha scene, but I would never have put him at d tier even with his flaws.
He really is a polarizing hero tho, sometimes you hard wreck people when catching them unprepared, and other times you meet back dodge perfectionists that make ara life terrible. Also despite the data I feel we still need a dodge attack of some kind. there have been many good threads about ara in the past that might get dug up because of this.
It may be difficult to put together but i'd be interested in seeing the top few team comps for 4v4s too. cause its obviously never a solo gig.
Nobu 4v4 ranks was super surprising to me.
So on the concept of aramusha in 4v4, im not super surprised because he clears out mobs fast, and quick kills on surprise. He's particularly valuable in breach imo for his minion kill potential. And admitting his target switch game is some of the best around. Dominion mode is weird anyways. too many people kill hunt as if it was a skirmish match IMO. Dominions oalso encourage ganking more than breach given the smaller maps. aramusha doesnt shine in a 1v 3 or a 1 v 4, but he definately shines in 4 v 4s where he can quickly deliver damage while moving target to target. Breach has gank squads sure, but the 4v4 occurs lest often in it than it does in dominion in my experience, could be totally wrong on this one tho.
Also just having rock steady probably does a surprising amount for him.
Rock steady alone I think is the reasoning, since shugo couldnt visibly make use of it, and also lacks the attack speed to capitalize on it hard. Point being the best use of rocksteady is not getting knocked over on revenge trigger, which contributes massively in 4v4s, and also allows you to surprise people when you come back from some of their knockdowns much faster than they planned on. Additionally this would slightly make sense for the difference between dominion and breach. breach has a lot less available potential for ledge kills, where as dominion enables them everywhere in most maps, thus in dominion rock steady plays a greater role of keeping the ara alive.
Im willing to bet if they removed rocksteady from his feat list he'd immediately drop down quite a bit in 4v4s,
And you know what? I love rock steady, but I would very happily give it up if they changed him to make up for it's loss in some other viable way as suggested in other threads. better actual gameplay, less gimmicky feat nullifying max punishes.
however for those claiming rock steady shouldn't ever have been on him cause he isnt heavy like the shugoki, rocksteady doesn't have to be about physical build, it can be about balancing and footwork too so to me that argument just fails.
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I think the key here is that this is breach. Nobushi has a very nice set of perks as a pure support class. When you consider how large the play area is and that she can bring people to 75% health, that will cause a use of less tickets, maybe keep defenders on the respawn screen for a shorter time as well. (At least going with my setup for support class which is remedy so health boost on kills, feline agility for the speed boost, and rising dawn).Originally Posted by Siegfried-Z Go to original post
Then you consider her feats, speed revive at tier one unlocked, plus quicker to get to allies plus 75% health? That's nice right there. Tier two are all relatively useful without being spectacular, tier three she can heal herself which is certainly useful on the attacking side, tier four she can heal others including, on the defending team, the lord. That speed boost will also be useful for running the flag (especially if the player or team is on top of the times) or intercepting someone with it, this reasoning, by the by, is exactly why I wouldn't want any different perks for my nobushi or valkyrie, I am someone who plays the objective and this set is a big help in breach.
With a different perk set, you could forgo the speed boost and have two of rising dawn. clever tactics which takes a zone quicker (useful for attackers) and rapid refresh which brings about the healing stuff mentioned before more frequently. It's also worth noting that it is the top 4% rank nobushi is high in, these will be people, likely grouped up, who put a lot more into playing the objective than most on the other chart and can likely hold their own in a fight without needing to shout that they don't have any stamina perks.
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Isn't it weird how all the Wu Lin performed extremely good in plat and above (all of them are in the top 5) meanwhile they scored average (except JJ) in the duel full population? Orochi being 3rd in all ranks doesn't surprise me at all, kind of expected since his lights can be hard to deal with if you don't continuously train against these fast attacks.
Wow PK scored abysmal overall, 39% win-loss ouch...
It might just be me but it seems that we're closer to balance than ever, with the exception of JJ and Conq scoring a bit too high and PK, WL, HL, Glad and Nobushi a bit too low, so I'm guessing after LB and raider get their rework, these heroes will be reworked next (prob not PK & WL because they already got theirs in this season, not that I think it did much). Would love to see Nobushi get reworked (or at least have 500 ms lights...). Didn't expect LB & Aramusha to score average in duels. It shocked me that Aramusha ended up being the highest scoring hero in dominion (top 4%), I guess 90% of those deaths are mine
I can see Aramusha being reworked just because of fan demand, but based on this data he looks like a solid hero (not saying he shouldn't get some love aka buffs/rework).
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Another excercise in pointlessness with the win matrix yet again. This time they not only showed us the 30% of all ranked players again but also the entire population of the whole game.
- Where are the statistics for the top 1% of players so we can account for the high level and competitive scene and not just the casual and mid-tier crowd?
- Where are the seperated data matrixes for PC and for Consoles respectively?
Showing us the entire game's playerbase and the top 30% of all ranked players is a bit of fun but it does nothing in telling us about how balanced the roster is. Orochi in the top 3 in 1v1 and Musha in 1st place in Dominion. That's hilarious considering how incredibly bad these two heroes fair in high level play and their complete non-existence in competitive tournaments.
So basically, pooling win rate and pick rate data from 100% and 30% of the total playerbase tells us 2 things:
1) People like to play to their fantasy and not whichever character is most viable. Shocking! So you're telling me that people who don't play for money are playing a video game purely for... fun!? Mind blown. And what does this tell us about how balanced the heroes are? Absolutely zero because at this level of skill pretty much every hero is viable.
2) The majority of the population are on console, which skews the data towards the console experience of the game. How else would we see Orochi in 3rd place in Duel and Aramusha in 1st place in Dominion. However the devs don't balance for consoles AT ALL and yet they show us a win matrix completely dominated by the console experience... Very cool guys. Very cool.
For actual hero viability these win matrixes are completley useless. Anyone interested in hero viability at the levels where hero viability actually matters should work off of the competitive tier list and forget what the Ubi devs are talking about. They're pretty much blowing smoke up our butts and taking us for fools by not sharing all of the stats that they use for balancing. Or in the very least letting us see win rates and pick rates seperated by platform and by ranked tiers.
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Agreed, but if you look at the past few Matrixes, the characters on the lower end ended up getting a rework. The lowest scoring heroes (in plat & above) were WL and PK, both got "reworks" this season and if I'm not mistaken the same happened with Orochi etc. These matrixes are obviously being used to balance the cast which is probably why some of the dev's statements were so controversial (remember when LB mains just needed to learn their character? It's because he scores really high in 4vs4 and average in duels. In their eyes there was no issue because they look mostly at their own data and there was no sign that Aramusha/LB were performing bad except for player feedback, so they decided to dismiss it like they dismissed "light spam")Originally Posted by Vakris_One Go to original post
These aren't really objective numbers, it doesn't take into account how they won (ledging vs "honor")/ how many mistakes the human players made. Difficulty is also subjective. I for one can destroy good JJ's (in 1vs1) but get Absolutely destroyed by an Aramusha. I'll likely lose to an Aramusha more and contribute in his W/L-ratio being higher than it should.
What I said in my previous post was a mere observation of the data and speculation on who might receive a rework next.
