Season 8 win matrix | Forums

[bannex19]

It must be so hard to collect the top 100/1000 hero's winrates and average them into a couple of charts. Pretty sure other well known vidoegames have leaderboards that keep track of multiple statistics per player that may not update every minute but regularly to see how the gods stack up against each other as well as how contemporaries fair when compared (hell im pretty sure the original runescape even had this kind of stat tracker). The colossal effort it must take to organize winrates by hero wins instead of player wins, sum them, and divide them must be unimaginable.

On a serous note, screw the long paragraphs of fluff detailing what thoughts on the data you have come up with, most of which are probably problems brought up multiple times already by the community as well as slightly altered versions of 'we will continue to look into...' & 'we are still gathering data on...' and just release the data so we can make up our own minds on how ̶̷b̶̷r̶̷o̶̷k̶̷e̶̷n̶̷ ̶̷ balanced the game is.

Have you ever read those explanations? It's good that they consider a multitude of possibilities for their data vs knee jerk nerf batting everything that sticks out.

The concept of game balance in terms of this game is a complicated one. High skill players definitely don't play the same game that the average player does and because of that they're stuck in a dichotomy of balancing philosophies that results in either a super steep learning curve or a flat uniform gaming experience.

[Tyrjo]

Maybe in duel like 52-3% but not more i think.
But In 4v4 i would more say she's gonna be arround 48%.

Yeah, I meant in Duel. I wasn't too clear about that.

[MuscleTech12018]

I so laugh when i read posts like this "it's so hard to get the data" No it's not.. all you have to do is to watch over them, KDA is ALWAYS recorded in server game )

[D3dicatedSrv3rz]

Have you ever read those explanations? It's good that they consider a multitude of possibilities for their data vs knee jerk nerf batting everything that sticks out.

The concept of game balance in terms of this game is a complicated one. High skill players definitely don't play the same game that the average player does and because of that they're stuck in a dichotomy of balancing philosophies that results in either a super steep learning curve or a flat uniform gaming experience.

I have read their explanations. I used to read the patch notes religiously when the cast started getting balanced. The reason i dont care for them much anymore is i dont have much faith in their decision making and reasoning. I am still coming to grips with how they can 'rework' PK and orochi at the same time and not clearly see the disparity in their kits. Adding more chains, chain initiators, a delayed side dodge, a better storm rush, and light spam (light spam which was the only reason PK dominated aside from her mobility which was normalized) and compare it to a soft feint inferior to shamans and slightly better delayed damaged (Delayed damaged i could get behind if it did a decent amount more damage than some heroes deal up front as the payoff).

I do agree that high skill players are in a much different league than a casual like me but their WR stats at least give me an idea of the potential of a hero i chose to main. It may not be directly useful but it adds to my perspective.

One thing i wish i touched on for getting the data out early instead of probably during 9's offseason is to keep it fresh. Though at the continental-drift like speeds this game seems to change for the better at, this game does change and i wish to see the hero standings before any such change alters how i now view it currently. I agree with your second sentence but im pretty sure how they choose to conclude their data is seldom influenced by how the their players feel about it. (otherwise conq wouldnt be on top for the 3rd season in a row)

[bannex19]

I have read their explanations. I used to read the patch notes religiously when the cast started getting balanced. The reason i dont care for them much anymore is i dont have much faith in their decision making and reasoning. I am still coming to grips with how they can 'rework' PK and orochi at the same time and not clearly see the disparity in their kits. Adding more chains, chain initiators, a delayed side dodge, a better storm rush, and light spam (light spam which was the only reason PK dominated aside from her mobility which was normalized) and compare it to a soft feint inferior to shamans and slightly better delayed damaged (Delayed damaged i could get behind if it did a decent amount more damage than some heroes deal up front as the payoff).

I do agree that high skill players are in a much different league than a casual like me but their WR stats at least give me an idea of the potential of a hero i chose to main. It may not be directly useful but it adds to my perspective.

One thing i wish i touched on for getting the data out early instead of probably during 9's offseason is to keep it fresh. Though at the continental-drift like speeds this game seems to change for the better at, this game does change and i wish to see the hero standings before any such change alters how i now view it currently. I agree with your second sentence but im pretty sure how they choose to conclude their data is seldom influenced by how the their players feel about it. (otherwise conq wouldnt be on top for the 3rd season in a row)

Let's be honest the PK and orochi reworks weren't reworks, they shouldn't have even called them that. I also should say that I am no fan of their approach to "balance" in this game. I was just saying that the discussion of the data was at least interesting and it shows that they're at least methodical but it sounds like you pretty much agree.

I think as fans of this game we're all sitting in the same bus wondering why the driver keeps walking back to slap us instead of turning away from driving off the cliff.

[UbiInsulin]

It must be so hard to collect the top 100/1000 hero's winrates and average them into a couple of charts. Pretty sure other well known vidoegames have leaderboards that keep track of multiple statistics per player that may not update every minute but regularly to see how the gods stack up against each other as well as how contemporaries fair when compared (hell im pretty sure the original runescape even had this kind of stat tracker). The colossal effort it must take to organize winrates by hero wins instead of player wins, sum them, and divide them must be unimaginable.

I personally sort of wish we would release the raw data without comment, tbh. The community attributes more importance to the single data set in the blog than it actually has, no matter how many "this isn't the only source of balance changes" warnings we put in the blogs. It's worth noting that they're just trying to use that data as a springboard for a larger discussion.

Lots of the issues players brought up with the last blog's data set were discussed internally after we heard your feedback on it.

[bannex19]

I personally sort of wish we would release the raw data without comment, tbh. The community attributes more importance to the single data set in the blog than it actually has, no matter how many "this isn't the only source of balance changes" warnings we put in the blogs. It's worth noting that they're just trying to use that data as a springboard for a larger discussion.

Lots of the issues players brought up with the last blog's data set were discussed internally after we heard your feedback on it.

It's not our fault that we don't heed the warning because that's the only source that's really given to us. If you provided (which is what I think the explanations of the data is supposed to be) the other sources and had more transparency with balance then maybe the win charts would lose weight.

As it is those charts are the only real source of data that's given to us. Couple that with lackluster feeling heroes that scrape the bottom and you're left with this community, a wildly enthusiastic bunch of head scratchers.

[Siegfried-Z]

I personally sort of wish we would release the raw data without comment, tbh. The community attributes more importance to the single data set in the blog than it actually has, no matter how many "this isn't the only source of balance changes" warnings we put in the blogs. It's worth noting that they're just trying to use that data as a springboard for a larger discussion.

Lots of the issues players brought up with the last blog's data set were discussed internally after we heard your feedback on it.

Because data is the only factual sources

Of course others exist, but anything else than pure Data gonna be subjective.

About how the data is shown, i think it would be far more usefull if firstly we could have PC and Console separate matrix.

And each of them split by rank from Bronze to diamond and then M/GM together in both 1v1 and 4v4.

It would be much more graph but it is easy to split these stats as you want once you get the entire database.

With this, anyone can look at the matrix for his Bracket, for example if a Guy is ranked plat on PC and plays almost only 4v4, he has a much better matrix To look at for him than the overall one.

Because the current stats arent very interesting as they are.

The gaming experience and issues of a silver pc duelist and a Master console 4v4 players are 2 entire différent world.

You should do it ^^

[Tundra 793]

I personally sort of wish we would release the raw data without comment, tbh.

[UbiInsulin]

Not my call, lol. I'm not involved in the creation of those blogs, but I can of course let people know that you guys feel this way.