Season 8 win matrix | Forums

[KotoKuraken]

so I'm guessing after LB and raider get their rework, these heroes will be reworked next (prob not PK & WL because they already got theirs in this season, not that I think it did much). Would love to see Nobushi get reworked (or at least have 500 ms lights...).\

They better not wait an eternity to rework PK.
1) They nerfed everything about PK, gave her nothing to work with. No, that bleed doesn't count, it's literally useless.
2) They kept PK at last place every season since she was nerfed.
3) They "buffed" her but not really. PK keeps going lower and lower and lower in the rankings, and I doubt putting a tiny pixel of damage on a heavy that they just made as slow as a Lawbringer heavy with none of the damage is going to fix anything.

If there's anyone who deserves a proper rework, it's PK. Not only is she the worst hero in the game for the longest amount of time, she was purposely put there. There's literally no one worse, so she should be the highest priority when the current publicly announced reworks have been completed.

[Cyroy95]

They better not wait an eternity to rework PK.
1) They nerfed everything about PK, gave her nothing to work with. No, that bleed doesn't count, it's literally useless.
2) They kept PK at last place every season since she was nerfed.
3) They "buffed" her but not really. PK keeps going lower and lower and lower in the rankings, and I doubt putting a tiny pixel of damage on a heavy that they just made as slow as a Lawbringer heavy with none of the damage is going to fix anything.

If there's anyone who deserves a proper rework, it's PK. Not only is she the worst hero in the game for the longest amount of time, she was purposely put there. There's literally no one worse, so she should be the highest priority when the current publicly announced reworks have been completed.

Who is Peacekeeper? You mean that one minion that keeps guardbreaking me when I try clear minions? :P
The thing with Peacekeeper in my opinion is that the basics are present in her character. She has most things needed to be a viable character. She has decent mixups that can keep enemies on their toes. Personally I like to start my chain with a whiffed light as it opens up a decent amount of follow ups and with the increased damage I do feel as if I whittle down enemies faster than I used to but there's just that one thing that lacks and that's either a bash or unblockable, something to keep the pressure up because the more drawn out the fight gets, the more your opponent starts to realise "Huh... I just have to guard top and react to anything else that might come my way" and that's when you lose and that is also the moment where you need an unblockable/bash.

So to summarize my little ramble: "The pieces are there, she just needs that one extra piece to put it all together.

[rottmeister]

They better not wait an eternity to rework PK.
1) They nerfed everything about PK, gave her nothing to work with. No, that bleed doesn't count, it's literally useless.
2) They kept PK at last place every season since she was nerfed.
3) They "buffed" her but not really. PK keeps going lower and lower and lower in the rankings, and I doubt putting a tiny pixel of damage on a heavy that they just made as slow as a Lawbringer heavy with none of the damage is going to fix anything.

If there's anyone who deserves a proper rework, it's PK. Not only is she the worst hero in the game for the longest amount of time, she was purposely put there. There's literally no one worse, so she should be the highest priority when the current publicly announced reworks have been completed.

I agree that PK should get a proper rework, but I doubt she'll receive one soon. She's already gotten two even though one destroyed her and the other one was barely a buff at all. She's not been this low for the longest time though, she topped the matrixes up until her first rework (season 6). Again, I'd love to see her receive a proper rework but I think Ubi will prioritize the heroes who haven't received one whilst giving her some small 'band-aids' from time to time.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, there aren't that much non dlc heroes anymore that haven't gotten a proper rework (starting from Season 5). If I'm not wrong it's just: Nobushi (had a hero update but no rework), Raider (apparently he had one already, but I don't think it was after Season 5?) and Lawbringer (got new animations and a nerf to some feats). So perhaps in Season 11/Year 3 season 3 we could expect her again? Then again Ubi could swerve us and rework DLC heroes before ever touching PK ever again.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Duke that was before wulin and other reworks. Not surprusing for this season. 56 is still fairly high. Literally no one thought he would be top after the release. And he is still very strong. You really are over focused on your personal crusade here eh?

But yeah conq is no where near in need of a nerf compared to some others.

You do know that the stats literally tell you each individual matchup win rate, right? So we can easily calculate the average for the cast excluding Wulin and it still comes out to 50.4% for the full population stats. So no, the Wulin are just a red herring because it's still 50% against the rest of the cast too and my point about what the real strengths of Conqueror are (ie it's not shield bash) still stands. The problem being that this misinformation about shield bash is still going to be posted regularly. Thankfully the devs haven't fell for it yet.

If you aren't even going to address the actual point I made then don't bother replying, thanks.

[Vendelkin]

If you aren't even going to address the actual point I made then don't bother replying, thanks.

I felt like replying so i did. You dont addrrss other people points. You bring up your own. I am allowed the same freedom. Also i ,did address 50% of your post.

As far as your point about wulin statistics you are massively skewed. Everyone knows you hard ignore outliers in any proper statistical study. So yes that means if you were going to calculate the release as a whole youd ignore nuxia in principle because of her pick rate alone. More data is needed there. If you want to skew stastics using median faction data then look at conq alongside all the knights or alongside the current state of the original roster. What will these numbers show us? Literally nothing useful anyone should make a conclusion about beyond maybe making the claim that the old cast is weaker overall. No surprise there

Also trying to suddenly defend wu lin winrates does nothing for your core argument so consider me confused by this pointless choice.

Please do again note that i agree conq does not need a nerf in the manner many people prescribe. Maybe not even at all with how they are improving heroes.

Conqs strength imo comes from his slightly safer superior blocks that do very heavy damage for a SB. Safer in part because of the option select style moves you mentioned. That being said should they be nerfed? No they shouldnt be. Even tho I almost feel like telling you otherwise just to get your goat but thats just me being honest. Really i wasnt anti conq till i started seeing your posts everywhere, and im still probably not one of your anti conqs. But i do tire of you bringing him up in random threads.

Your original post focused 50% on peacekeeper stuff, which yeah i agree her recent teased and given buff was a huge dissapointment. And 50% on your typical anti conq/pro conq rhetoric. I responded to your post by responding to that 50% especially since conq was still a high outlier in duels. 56 % is nothing to laugh at. And yes if looking straight at the data its balancing around duels would put cent on the chopping block right after jj imo. (Yes i am one of those that believes balancing should be done for plat or higher, because in balancing you check the strongest links not the weakest links first)

Additional discourse on statistics. Logically when a sample size grows larger all win rates should stabilize more. This makes the jjs standing all the more impressive. And also does directly account for a decrease in conqs win rates, pick rates, etc. The fact that he maintained a 56% 2nd place is very impressive and significant. Further as discussed in other places these statistics and their gathering methods are still very very left in the dark for us to see.

[HighGround_S3G]

JJ needs nerfed big time. And Peacekeeper needs buffed back to what she was before the For Honor devs destroyed her and made her the worst class in the game!

While your at it, nerf hyper armor, or give EVERY class hyper armor

And nerf guard break, it should not be able to grab people who are dodging!

[HighGround_S3G]

and nerf the stun time from parrying a light attack, a light parry stun should be the same or less than a heavy stun, not longer!

[Cyroy95]

And nerf guard break, it should not be able to grab people who are dodging!

That's a terrible idea, that would leave literally anyone without an unlockable unable to deal with dodge-attack turtles.

[ChampionRuby50g]

and nerf the stun time from parrying a light attack, a light parry stun should be the same or less than a heavy stun, not longer!

Hot damn, your ideas reek of low level player who really doesn’t know what they are talking about. Maybe don’t spam light attacks and mix it up a little bit?

[ArchDukeInstinct]

I felt like replying so i did. You dont addrrss other people points. You bring up your own. I am allowed the same freedom. Also i ,did address 50% of your post.

Let me clarify, I don't need you to address ALL points I've made, I need you to address at a minimum ONE point if you are going to quote and attempt a reply.

You see, when I make a point that compares the two populations' statistics and what the disparity between the two would seem to indicate about the game, you clearly aren't addressing it by saying "56% is still high!!!". Did I ever say 56% was fine or not still higher than ideal? No.

As far as your point about wulin statistics you are massively skewed. Everyone knows you hard ignore outliers in any proper statistical study. So yes that means if you were going to calculate the release as a whole youd ignore nuxia in principle because of her pick rate alone. More data is needed there. If you want to skew stastics using median faction data then look at conq alongside all the knights or alongside the current state of the original roster. What will these numbers show us? Literally nothing useful anyone should make a conclusion about beyond maybe making the claim that the old cast is weaker overall. No surprise there

Nuxia's pick rate has 0 influence on Conqueror's win rate against the year 1 cast.

Also trying to suddenly defend wu lin winrates does nothing for your core argument so consider me confused by this pointless choice.

I'm not defending any win rates. I'm telling you how I took Conq vs other year 1 character winrates and averaged them so there is no interference from Wulin, and the average is 50.4% for the full population statistics. That's why Wulin are a non-factor with regards to the point I actually made, yet you continue to bring them up anyway.

Conqs strength imo comes from his slightly safer superior blocks that do very heavy damage for a SB. Safer in part because of the option select style moves you mentioned. That being said should they be nerfed? No they shouldnt be.

I'd nerf the option selects. Conq's zone attack should give a light parry punish and Conq shouldn't be able to cancel his heavy charge immediately after starting one so there is a chance to GB him if he tries to use it as an option select. They should also make his superior block on dodge start at 100ms again instead of 0ms. These are really basic changes which would not only help the win rate normalize but would also make the matchups with Conqueror way less stale because Conqueror would be less effective at stalling a match.

Even tho I almost feel like telling you otherwise just to get your goat but thats just me being honest. Really i wasnt anti conq till i started seeing your posts everywhere, and im still probably not one of your anti conqs. But i do tire of you bringing him up in random threads.

That's because I'm here to make the game better and generally stick to discussing the class I've been in the top 100 for, while you're just here for some weird confrontation where you try to disagree with points I didn't even make.