🛈 Announcement
Greetings! Far Cry forums are now archived and accessible in read-only mode, please go to the new platform to discuss the game.
  1. #11
    Devs, keep this in mind........
    Share this post

  2. #12
    Originally Posted by HorTyS Go to original post
    I think if a person paid attention to sales numbers between Far Cry 2 and Far Cry 3, anyone with a modicum of sense would just assume that Ubi will never make another Far Cry similar to 2 ever again. That ship has long since sailed and any expectation of them returning to that type of game for this series is irrational & unreasonable. I know there are people who hold Far Cry 2 as the series' peak, but what those same people never seem to do is realize that it was both A) the outlier in terms of both it's take on realism and immersion, and B) the series' weakest selling entry. Somehow those 2 facts seem to be completely disregarded in all discussion as to how the series can and/ or should change going forward.... just my 2 cents....
    Hey HorTys,
    We have debated those points you make more times than I can count off the top of my head. We both know those are not facts per se but rather perspectives. Yes, there are more sales of FC3 and beyond and yes, FC2 is an outlier because it is unique compared to every other release. By definition that's what makes it special.

    I don't focus on those points because they are symptoms of something deeper. Clearly there's a large segment of the buying public who do not buy games to be put into a situation where they have to deal with challenges that require the learning and development of skills. They want to be distracted from their very real everyday life. They want to be "wowed" by pretty scenery. They want instant gratification with the ability to fire up the game, go out...and shoot everything that's tagged as the enemy without having to deal with complexity. They don't want more work. In short, they want the arcade experience.

    You are saying it yourself. That's what Ubisoft has tapped into and why Far Cry has become a dumbed-down clone machine that experiences high sales figures. The bump in the bell curve does not want the sort of game people like me want because like Far Cry 2, we are also the niche of the population. Most people belong to the average because there are more people in the average (hump) of the bell curve. That's what being average means. That dynamic applies to everything and anything you can put on the table. So average people want an average game. It's the people at the extremes that have the most difficulty because we are the few...not the many. Far Cry 2 was an accident. But having been developed and published...people like me say, "This is possible because you did it once and we do not accept that you are incapable of providing it as part of the games you develop. It's called reality settings.

    Let me describe a real life company to make my point. There's a company out there named, "CH Products". They are a thriving business. They make game controls for flight simulations (joystick, throttle and rudder pedals). It's a niche market obviously. Most people are not interested in learning how to fly on a computer. But how does this company stay in business? They make controls for industrial manufacturing under the name "APEM" (look it up). That is their bread and butter. The game controls are something they do because they recognize there are people who will buy them and they do not take a hit financially because their industrial control business makes it all possible.

    So why can't Ubisoft do something similar? They have high sales with their arcade-based offerings. Far Cry is one of many arcade type games they offer. That's their bread and butter. But they could include the ability to apply reality settings to change the game into hardcore realism for those of us who want a serious challenge. All they have to do is do it. Their current offerings do not cut it and they don't appear to be interested in listening to those of us who keep telling them we are still here.
    Share this post

  3. #13
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,227
    All those points I raised are facts though, not merely perspectives. All I'm saying is that I don't think Ubi sees it as financially viable to spend the time & resources doing what you're suggesting they should do, which is a completely logical decision as far as I can tell. I don't suspect implementing those features would increase sales enough to make it worth the effort on their part from a financial & release scheduling perspective, which, in the videogame industry are basically the primary factors in all a developer's decision making...
    Share this post

  4. #14
    Yes they are facts but the perspective they strongly suggest (and you emphasize) is that of money being the driving factor. I tried to put forth (with an example) the idea that a company can be solvent and do things for reasons other than simply widening their profit margin. That's pretty much what all companies do when they are first starting out. It's called investing in the business and taking a risk because the business model is still being born out. You could say that's what the gaming industry did as a whole back in the day when they weren't sure what people would trend into liking. But there are ways to make things for the sake of making them. I'm sure we both agree that's not what Ubisoft is interested in. But I still hold out hope. That's why I keep my presence here watching if anything will change.

    Oh, and I'm not looking for Far Cry 2 to be remade. I'd just like to see the franchise evolve into something sensible and genuinely challenging in a grounded manner (think Chess vs. Candy Crush). Far Cry 2 was moving in that direction and I still think it could be an optional form of play. Distractions are not immersion. That's a big problem for a lot of entertainment these days. Gimmicks replace talent to keep people from noticing the lack thereof.
    Share this post

  5. #15
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,227
    Well yes, it is my perspective that profits are the primary factor in the design of games, not just Ubisoft, but industry wide, and to me it seems so blatantly evident that I'm honestly a bit perplexed that anyone might think otherwise, it is after all a totally rational way of decision making for a company where profits are the driving factor of any & all decision making to start with. If they don't think a design is going to be something that will make the game appeal to the widest possible audience, they're not going to spend the time & resources to implement it. I can't think of a major developer where that line of thought is not obviously the primary motivation for all of a game's design.

    I dunno, I guess I keep hammering on that point because to me it makes no sense to think that Ubi would ever dip back into the well of the weakest performing entry after having such greater success with later iterations. I really liked Far Cry 2 as well, but there is no denying it performed below expectations. They've taken the series so far away from what FC2 was and had so much more success, it is hard for me to imagine a scenario in which they consider taking another chance on the series like that. Maybe if one of the games fails miserably. I enjoyed FC3/4, tolerated primal, and had a decent enough time with FC5. I'm honestly expecting New Dawn to be underwhelming. My wish for the series, as I've said many times, would be to strike a balance somewhere between the FC2 & FC3 styles of design, but I think even that is too much to hope for....
    Share this post

  6. #16
    Originally Posted by scrapser Go to original post
    If anything it's gotten increasingly automated and simple-minded. There's no challenge, no learning curve
    There's a reason for that, studies show that over 90% of gamers are casuals

    Trying to cater to less than 10% of your customer base is just bad for business
    it's like you said in one of your later post, most people want instant gratification

    Sure they can make things harder and still make money but why would they when it's more work for less profits?
    Share this post

  7. #17
    HorTyS's Avatar Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,227
    I would love to see them bring the series back closer to the Far Cry 2 days, I'm not against the idea, I'm only being realistic in my expectations of this series. I really liked Far Cry 3 though and thought it addressed many of the issues I'd had with 2, and Far Cry 4 was more of the same with that, however I do think the series is on a bit of a decline as every game after 4 has started implementing things I haven't seen as interesting or fun new additions. I don't think the Guns for Hire are a good thing, I was really annoyed at the lack of bladed weapons in Far Cry 5, made even more frustrating to me by the lame 'reason' they gave for it that had no consistency with all the other things you could do in the game. And now New Dawn is taking the series post-apocalyptic, which, might be cool for one game, but I hope a proper Far Cry 6 does not continue this thread.


    I guess the part I am having a hard time trying to comprehend is how what the FC2 purists are advocating for isn't seen as an unreasonable level of expectation from the developer from those suggesting that level of change for the series. It was only when sales took a major hit that they went back and made a major shake-up to the AC games, and it took them like 10+ games before that happened, this is really only the 5th Far Cry on their new structure, and with 5 being the fastest selling title in the franchise yet, I don't foresee any motivation for them to shake things up just yet. Though I would they rather do so in a preventative measure rather than as a reaction to the previous game under-performing this go around.
    Share this post

  8. #18
    Hardcore gamers also have the right! And Demand breeds Supply. I'm waiting for this....
    Share this post

  9. #19
    I want to reply to some of what's just been said but first...Happy New Year everyone!

    HorTyS,
    Your point about profit is not lost on me. I completely understand the mechanics there. If a company is not making enough money to fund the business it will not stay in business. My approach to that is to tweak it a little and realize another approach that admittedly is counter to traditional way's of thinking. But it has been put forth from time to time and I think at some point it will need to be embraced because the current approach is not sustainable.

    It goes like this..."Make a good product or provide a good service and the money will take care of itself." People actually do want quality although there is always a percentage of the population that for a variety of reasons doesn't pay this much mind. They just take things for granted and call that reality. Companies do not embrace my statement because they are all about minimizing risk. Playing it safe is the way to go for much of any industry. They are akin to the "casual" gamer in many ways. They pay the most attention to what most people will buy and they call that a successful business model. The down side is that we all must be happy with average mediocrity as a result.

    It's as shame more companies aren't in business for the sake of whatever business they actually do (make games, build cars, cook food, provide legal advice, etc. etc.). I don't go to work to just make money. I'm there for the work itself. I need to be or I would go insane doing something all day that I could care less about or even dislike.

    AgentSeta,
    I don't know if you read any of my previous posts in this thread but just because 90% of the population are casual gamers does not mean that's all a company can provide. There are ways to diversify and piggy-back costs of doing business by offsetting expensive endeavors (niche market) by providing a product or service to the mainstream (the 90% as you put it) for revenue and cash flow reasons.

    And finally, I need to report there is an article on Steam counting the top 50 FPS games of all time going all the way back to the early 90's. The only Far Cry games listed are FC2 and FC4. FC2 is number 10 and FC4 is number 31. That makes me smile.
    Share this post

  10. #20
    Originally Posted by portal_JUMPER21 Go to original post
    The boss is two serena sisters scary. Not
    I'm not real impressed with it either. It's way too soon for such well stocked preppers of FC5 to not have any weapons that are 100%. The Pepto-bismol pink is just God awful (and where is all the pink paint coming from?). With the abbreviated support for FC5 I do not trust Ubi to have any decent length of support for ND. So I hope Ubi learns a lesson on this.
    Share this post