How is Scott Mitchell A Lt. Col.???? | Forums

[LoneSpymaster]

Wow, I'd never even heard of that game.

I do recall something about a World War III from some of Clancy's novels maybe?

Also that those novels have a timeline just absolutely hell and gone from our world.

There is a game and novels after the name End War but it isn't canon, is an alternative timeline when everything changes. Just like The Division.
You need to know that Ghost Recon, H.A.W.X, Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell take place in the same universe, reason why they created short stories to tied in with End War called The End Begins but like i said, what happens in End War and everything related to it is not canon, confirmed by Ubisoft.

You can read all of this four short stories here:
http://jackryan.wikia.com/wiki/Categ...egins_(Series)

Take it as an alternative timeline, do not use it as a fact for the actual timeline the games have.

[Bone_Frog]

There is a game and novels after the name End War but it isn't canon, is an alternative timeline when everything changes. Just like The Division.
You need to know that Ghost Recon, H.A.W.X, Rainbow Six and Splinter Cell take place in the same universe, reason why they created short stories to tied in with End War called The End Begins but like i said, what happens in End War and everything related to it is not canon, confirmed by Ubisoft.

You can read all of this four short stories here:
http://jackryan.wikia.com/wiki/Categ...egins_(Series)

Take it as an alternative timeline, do not use it as a fact for the actual timeline the games have.

If you actually read what I wrote, you would see that I said it was an alternate timeline.

I then postulated that GRW was also another, alternate timeline, as that is the only way you can explain the rank changes and retain the oft stated commitment to realism.

Oh and Rainbow Six definitely has two timelines. That of the Ryanverse, where John and Ding get booted from Rainbow and forcibly retired from the CIA, then go, join the Campus(Dead or Alive novel) and wind up working several missions in Eastern Europe with Midas, who isn't a ghost but rather a team leader and then eventual Troop Chief in CAG. Then the game timeline where John Clark retires and Ding takes over Rainbow(Critical Hour game) and in the game world is still CO of Rainbow..

[LoneSpymaster]

There is nothing that can explain a demotion that will retain the Tom Clancy(general) and GR(specific) multiple statements to a commitment to realism. You cannot legally demote an officer, without also dismissing him permanently from service. That has been US Federal Law since Congress enacted the UCMJ on May 5, 1950. It has to be bad writing, alternate timeline or reconning. Anything else is the equivalent of Ubisoft saying "Come play this game that we try to make as realistic as possible, but we totally disregard all reality so it isn't really realistic at all, but realism is our selling point becasue Tom Clancy." No, it just doesn't work.
As far as Endwar not being canon. The only reason it isn't is because sales were poor and ubisoft abandoned the Franchise. As the wikia points out, had sales been good enough to continue the franchise we would have an alternate timeline.

You shouldn’t use what you know in real life as an argument, this is a videogame, take it as what it is. Using arguments from real life doesn’t work here, the timeline is already written. The units from the Tom Clancy brand (Team Rainbow, Splinter Cell’s, The Ghosts and H.A.W.X) are written with fiction plus reality, since the beginning they make clear of that. Of course, they can use real life units to see how they operate in order to make it as realistic as possible in that way, but it doesn’t mean the units from the game are going to work like a real-life unit would because they are written as a very unique and advanced unit.

This is a videogame that also has novels tied in with it, so a level of realism and fiction is always going to be part of the mix.

You are wrong with End War not being canon because of the low sales, it was confirmed when they launch the short stories that tied in each of these units to End War called “The End Begins Here” at the time of release they said those stories weren’t canon because the game was an alternative timeline.

Is the same case with The Division. Why neither of these four units appear or are at least mention in that game? Because The Division is a demonstration of a contingency plan. The Division unit is deployed when everything else fails.

The point is, it could also be a mistake. Is not surprising because as I said, is not the first time.

Again, you have to take it for what these games are, videogames about units that do not exist.

[Bone_Frog]

You shouldn’t use what you know in real life as an argument, this is a videogame, take it as what it is. Using arguments from real life doesn’t work here, the timeline is already written. The units from the Tom Clancy brand (Team Rainbow, Splinter Cell’s, The Ghosts and H.A.W.X) are written with fiction plus reality, since the beginning they make clear of that. Of course, they can use real life units to see how they operate in order to make it as realistic as possible in that way, but it doesn’t mean the units from the game are going to work like a real-life unit would because they are written as a very unique and advanced unit.

This is a videogame that also has novels tied in with it, so a level of realism and fiction is always going to be part of the mix.

You are wrong with End War not being canon because of the low sales, it was confirmed when they launch the short stories that tied in each of these units to End War called “The End Begins Here” at the time of release they said those stories weren’t canon because the game was an alternative timeline.

Is the same case with The Division. Why neither of these four units appear or are at least mention in that game? Because The Division is a demonstration of a contingency plan. The Division unit is deployed when everything else fails.

The point is, it could also be a mistake. Is not surprising because as I said, is not the first time.

Again, you have to take it for what these games are, videogames about units that do not exist.

See above response regarding time lines. The one pointing out that R6 has two defined time lines(3 if you count Endwar).

Also what you are saying does not jive with what is sated in the game. The game specifically states that while the Ghosts are a special unit they are still bound by the UCMJ which is why killing civilians will result in a game over.

[shobhit7777777]

No. I think they actually intended to break GRW off into its own timeline. That way they would be able to continue doing Sci-Fi linear games in the GRFS continuum, while doing more present day reality based near future games like GRW in its own timeline. Just like Endwar was an alternate Ghost Recon timeline before Ubi cancelled it due to poor sales.

I disagree. It's certainly the same timeline. It doesn't make business sense to split the brand. Re: Future sci-fi tech...and it's impending inclusion as per Future Soldier canon...I think between Wildlands and the events of GRFS they have more enough time to put out several games that are relatively low tech...within Wildland's realms. From parallel storylines to entire ret-cons.

Ubi has ret-conned in the past and apart from the main TC brands, the off-shoots like EndWar and HAWX don't really sway canon to a degree that it would pigeonhole development of future games and their concepts.

It's another Ubi ****-up/misguided effort. Their commitment to realism is under heavy doubt.

[Ghost-Ami]

I kinda want to look at other Clancy stuff, but I feel this sort of haphazard lack of continuity or multiple timelines or whatever is going to bother me intensely in a way it doesn't if I just enjoy GRW and don't try to go outside it. I'm practically crosseyed already from reading some of the stuff you all have written on the subject. XD

[Bone_Frog]

I kinda want to look at other Clancy stuff, but I feel this sort of haphazard lack of continuity or multiple timelines or whatever is going to bother me intensely in a way it doesn't if I just enjoy GRW and don't try to go outside it. I'm practically crosseyed already from reading some of the stuff you all have written on the subject. XD

The main Ryanverse as written by Tom Clancy is pretty good. He is vague enough with timelines that you don't really get the feel for what is going on. The place where it went sideways was around the 2000 Olympics/Rainbow Six and then the inclusion of a 9/11 and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with him deciding to have a G.W. Bush Presidency in there somewhere. However, everything from Hunt for Red October until The Bear and the Dragon flow in one nice continuous timeline. UBL and 9/11 kinda screwed that up. There is some retconning I guess you can do, wherein G.W. would be President immediately after Ryan but before Kealty... Though again that is a speed bump in what is after the fact another smooth timeline.

Op-Center
Splinter Cell
Net Force
Power Plays
Net Force Explorers
and the stand alone novel Red Storm Rising are all alternate timelines/universes.

Ghost Recon(though Characters from this are found in others, Scott Mitchell was in Op-Center along with most of the original ghosts as Striker, they died to a man/woman in Pakistan). Weaver is a team leader at DevGru and winds up being Troop Chief over a Squadron, Midas is a team leader at CAG and winds up being Troop Chief over a Squadron.
Endwar
HAWX
The Division
Are all alternate universes that may have some cross over.

Rainbow Six is the oddity as it has crossover in several properties. Ryanverse, Gameverse, Endwarverse, and apparently in the Rebooted OpCenterverse.

So if you want to read some Clancy, go with the original Ryanverse. The Hunt For Red October was great. It is part of the required reading list at Annapolis and the Navy War College. Great depiction of Naval warfare in general and Submarine warfare in particular. Red Storm Rising too... though again that is a stand alone.

[MikeWeeks]

Some of my most enjoyable reading were the original Clancy novels - i.e., Red October thru Bear & Dragon. Rainbow was the slowest as there was far too much "technical/training" narration to plow thru. After those I really lost track of what was taking place despite getting a few of the follow-on books, which are around, somewhere, in the house.

Interesting discussion regarding the subject.

[LoneSpymaster]

If you actually read what I wrote, you would see that I said it was an alternate timeline.
I then postulated that GRW was also another, alternate timeline, as that is the only way you can explain the rank changes and retain the oft stated commitment to realism.
Oh and Rainbow Six definitely has two timelines. That of the Ryanverse, where John and Ding get booted from Rainbow and forcibly retired from the CIA, then go, join the Campus(Dead or Alive novel) and wind up working several missions in Eastern Europe with Midas, who isn't a ghost but rather a team leader and then eventual Troop Chief in CAG. Then the game timeline where John Clark retires and Ding takes over Rainbow(Critical Hour game) and in the game world is still CO of Rainbow..

I wasn’t talking to you. I was talking to the other guy/girl.

Now…I do not know when we started talking about Rainbow Six, but I know it has multiple timelines in the novel world. That’s why I do not bother with it so much. Specially since Siege is a very disappointing Rainbow Six game.

Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, H.A.W.X and Ghost Recon have timelines in the EndWar universe but it isn’t canon and doesn’t fit with the actual main timeline for those games.

See above response regarding time lines. The one pointing out that R6 has two defined time lines(3 if you count Endwar).
Also what you are saying does not jive with what is sated in the game. The game specifically states that while the Ghosts are a special unit they are still bound by the UCMJ which is why killing civilians will result in a game over.

Well, that’s a different case. When I said “they can do whatever they want because they do not follow army policy” is because of how they recruit Ghosts, as it was the case for Alicia Diaz.

And no, Wildlands is not set on it’s own timeline. You are trying to find the best way to fix it, while fitting your tastes of “ It should be this way because is how it works in real life” which is flawed both as an argument and an excuse. I have show you with actual game timeline facts that Ghost Recon Wildlands is part of the main timeline, whatever you like it or not. Does it make sense for real life purposes for Captain Mitchell to be demoted? Maybe not, but that’s how it was wrote, whatever you like it or not, is irrelevant.

It could be also an oversight.

It makes sense for timeline reasons, the demoted explanation but as another user has already said, is not the first time, they mess up details of the timeline. I can give you a full list if you want.

I kinda want to look at other Clancy stuff, but I feel this sort of haphazard lack of continuity or multiple timelines or whatever is going to bother me intensely in a way it doesn't if I just enjoy GRW and don't try to go outside it. I'm practically crosseyed already from reading some of the stuff you all have written on the subject. XD

Lol is how it works sadly. If we only mention the whole Clancy games timeline (Splinter Cell, H.A.W.X, Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six) including their novels (with the exception of Rainbow Six) it is crazy the amount of mistakes the timeline has.

I could give you an example of one mistake between a game and novel about Ghost Recon.

Ghost Recon:

Spoiler:  Show

Joe Ramirez has died two times.
In Ghost Recon Combat Ops (novel which takes place in May of 2012) Joe Ramirez dies at the end of the operation. Even though he appears alive in GRAW (which takes place in 2013) and they take place in the same timeline.
This discrepancy is just a mistake and later gets ignored, because he appears alive and well in the rest of the media including games and following novels. He officially dies at the beginning of GRFS.

You can see that the amount of attention isn’t great.

[Bone_Frog]

Well, that’s a different case. When I said “they can do whatever they want because they do not follow army policy” is because of how they recruit Ghosts, as it was the case for Alicia Diaz.

Ok so Alicia Diaz. You have mistakenly said, mulitpile times that she had no MOS. That isn't true, even in game canon. Specifically she didn't have a Combat MOS. Quoting from the Wikia:

Alicia Diaz joined the Army, but Army policy did not allow her to serve in any combat MOS

http://ghostrecon.wikia.com/wiki/Alicia_Diaz
Welcome to the United States Armed Forces before 2016. HOWEVER when Congress enacted USSOCOM in 1986, the amended certain regulations regarding certain units, namely Tier 1 units, that allowed women to serve in what would otherwise be combat roles, if deemed operationally necessary.

As such CAG has Squadron G which specializes in advanced force operations, sniping, reconnaissance and surveillance. It has employed women, and as such women were engaged in combat operations with them back in '93 in Somalia(at least that we have public accounts of). In fact when Alicia Diaz was just joining as a Ghost, a friend of mine was on her fourth combat rotation with CAG in Afghanistan.

In DevGru there is Black Squadron, same thing, different service branch. Don't even get me started on some of the spookier ones like NSA's for SAB.

Again the game internally says that the Ghosts abide by UCMJ and you have yet to show anything that goes against military regs. There are literally dozens of Alicia Diaz's in Tier one units because they were denied Combat MOS in regular troops, and they decided to give it a swing.

And no, Wildlands is not set on it’s own timeline. You are trying to find the best way to fix it, while fitting your tastes of “ It should be this way because is how it works in real life” which is flawed both as an argument and an excuse.

You have yet to actually demonstrate that it is not. When again there is a lot more to show that it is. Not the least of which is the active camo that they just introduced. It is prototype being field tested in Wildlands and it is a prototype being field tested in GRFS. Really?!?! You should have at least moved on to Gen2 by then. Should definitely be out of the field test prototype stage. Oh, yeah and can something brand new six years later, be introduced as brand new now?

What you are trying to accuse me of here is what you are in fact doing. You are massaging various facts to fit your tastes. While ignoring others because they are inconvenient to the narrative that you prefer.

I have show you with actual game timeline facts my own head canon that Ghost Recon Wildlands is part of the main timeline, whatever you like it or not. Does it make sense for real life purposes for Captain Mitchell to be demoted? Maybe not, but that’s how it was wrote I want it written, whatever you like it or not, is irrelevant.

Fixed that for you.

Yeah I prefer to give greater weight to internal consistency and adherence to stated goals.