[FEEDBACK and SUGGESTION] Necessary improvements to Squad AI | Forums

[Frag_Maniac]

In my Ghost Mode play throug with limited skills and no hud on extreme, I concluded the AI team had three uses... revive me, sync shot, start taking out some enemies when told to fire. The latter was only effective sometimes... Sometimes, they would clear an entire outpost on their own. Other times, they would get wiped out with similar odds, and others they would engage passing Unidad rather than any SB. It was like rolling the dice telling them to fire.

That's where the value of knowing what they can and can't do comes into play. You simply can't expect them to walk out into the back of the bank in Bank Heist while they're being chewed up by fixed minigun emplacements and choppers, especially with no squad upgrades. Largely why I'm making a video tutorial with such challenges is to show from what vantage points the player can survive and command effectively, and how to make your squad survive, or at least keep them from getting downed in what would surely be a player killzone if you were to try to heal them. Yes, there are times you have to micromanage them by trying to get them to only Fire at nearby enemies that would otherwise flank and overwhelm you, but it's best during any wave missions to also reign them in immediately thereafter with a GoTo and Hold in a safe spot.

It's basically a matter of realizing what kind of enemy forces and weapons you're up against, and that just like GoTo erases their invisibility mode, Fire also erases their survival instincts. My Stock Drop video is an example of how I keep them alive and unseen when they're rallying behind me. After the 2nd cache is blown, I take them along the base of the hill on the other side of the wall near the train tracks, after of course placing them there with a Hold prior. Then I shoot the heavy gunner near the checkpoint and move just to a point where I can give them a GoTo to advance up the hill to a safe visual cover spot, and I order this while prone so they won't wander around and be seen. Once you've played each mission enough times with such challenges, you learn where they tend to wander.

[Scion_Drakhar]

Frag_Maniac, I just started your No HUD guide and am liking it quite a bit.

Also, just reading through some of the replies I learned something. I didn't know that the AI is invisible to the enemy UNTIL YOU GIVE THEM AN ORDER. That is a very handy fact to know.

I actually don't mind the squad banter. I'm rather fond of listening to Midas tell jokes, for instance. What I could do with a LOT less of, however, is the NAGGING. I hate being nagged. I'm an old man and I've been married 3 times. I can't stand being nagged. I think I may even have a PTSD level aversion to it. No. Really. One ex-wife was a drunk and that woman would talk herself in circles until I just left the house. So Holt, Midas, and Weaver can kiss my *** if a civilian runs into my line of fire at the split second I squeeze a trigger or dash into the AoE while mortars are falling or just decide to act as meatshields for the enemy. Don't care.

But aye, I plan on watching your series, Frag_Maniac.

Cheers, folks.

[LaMOi]

The old dawgs on this Forum have long since given up on this one.

There’s been threads, loooooong threads devoted to the Team Ai.
The Devs responded in their Q&A’s addressing community requests.

It’s all been discussed and then some....

Would be nice if you could split them up, give them individual orders.

Would be nice to be able to toggle RoE.

OP — I don’t think it’s gonna happen, not till a potential sequel.

I think the best we can expect here on in, is largely, if we lucky, perhaps some new single player content, maybe some small new features, weapons and items, cosmetics etc.


The Team AI are largely rubbish but not completely useless.

Here’s some vids I did way back showing how they can be used to create cross fires, or distraction...

https://youtu.be/5OqaOEpzfaM

https://youtu.be/SAbNuQugLBI



Personally — I mostly play Lone Wolf (solo) these days, and switch off the Team AI entirely.... I find it’s a more challenging and consistent experience.

[LaMOi]

Frag_Maniac, I just started your No HUD guide and am liking it quite a bit.

Also, just reading through some of the replies I learned something. I didn't know that the AI is invisible to the enemy UNTIL YOU GIVE THEM AN ORDER. That is a very handy fact to know.

I actually don't mind the squad banter. I'm rather fond of listening to Midas tell jokes, for instance. What I could do with a LOT less of, however, is the NAGGING. I hate being nagged. I'm an old man and I've been married 3 times. I can't stand being nagged. I think I may even have a PTSD level aversion to it. No. Really. One ex-wife was a drunk and that woman would talk herself in circles until I just left the house. So Holt, Midas, and Weaver can kiss my *** if a civilian runs into my line of fire at the split second I squeeze a trigger or dash into the AoE while mortars are falling or just decide to act as meatshields for the enemy. Don't care.

But aye, I plan on watching your series, Frag_Maniac.

Cheers, folks.

They’re not completely invisible — I’ve had them be spotted and blow my cover a few times.

I wouldn’t rely on that entirely. They are largely invisible to the eye enemy, when the AI is unaware of your presence, but it seems to be somewhat inconsistent.

[UbiInsulin]

I'm not presently aware of any impending changes to squad AI, but thanks for bringing up these potential improvements!

[Frag_Maniac]

Frag_Maniac, I just started your No HUD guide and am liking it quite a bit.

Also, just reading through some of the replies I learned something. I didn't know that the AI is invisible to the enemy UNTIL YOU GIVE THEM AN ORDER. That is a very handy fact to know.

I actually don't mind the squad banter. I'm rather fond of listening to Midas tell jokes, for instance. What I could do with a LOT less of, however, is the NAGGING. I hate being nagged. I'm an old man and I've been married 3 times. I can't stand being nagged. I think I may even have a PTSD level aversion to it. No. Really. One ex-wife was a drunk and that woman would talk herself in circles until I just left the house. So Holt, Midas, and Weaver can kiss my *** if a civilian runs into my line of fire at the split second I squeeze a trigger or dash into the AoE while mortars are falling or just decide to act as meatshields for the enemy. Don't care.

But aye, I plan on watching your series, Frag_Maniac.

Cheers, folks.

Glad you're finding it useful, hopefully for means other than entertainment. That was the whole purpose of the series.

I think the reason the nagging was added is it's often a way real life soldiers pass time to avoid stress. It's kinda like therapy in such a stressful environment. I totally get why some whom have had too much of it in marriage are off put by it though. Yeah I totally get the civilian causalities thing too. In my Bank Heist video, I accidentally shot one, but then instead of scrambling to a smart place when SB and Ghosts are going at it, they'll run right between them and crouch down in the worst possible spot, so what the hell, accidents happen. That also happens quite a lot in real life during these barrage of shootings in modern day society though. When people panic you don't know what they're going to do.

As LaMOi correctly stated, the Ghosts in autonomous mode are not always invisible, just usually. That can also make it hard to know where you can and can't trust them. It's also part of the reason I made this guide, because when you only have two frags and no C4, you have to be really careful they don't raise suspicion or full alert, which of course makes things all that much harder. I'm loving the way a lot of camps have a train that rolls through at regular intervals though, which can make any grenade explosions pretty much undetectable on the other side of the camp, like in my Stock Drop video on the last coca cache.

Anyways, stay tuned, I'm now 2 missions into Remanzo, and still finding new tactics to use.

[Scion_Drakhar]

Okay here's a problem that keeps me tearing my hair out. How do you get these idiots to actually clear the building during a vehicle drop off mission? Seriously, this should be the easy stuff: Fire! But instead all they do is run around the outside of the building as the timer ticks down, forcing me to try soloing the building and then tearing my hair out when I fail.
Seriously I hate the AI squad. I keep trying to work with them and I keep ending up just despising them. They are broken. I'm sorry, I know a lot of time and energy and love went into them but they are seriously lacking. Their behavior is counterintuitive, frustrating and, apparently, inconsistent. I have no bloody idea how to use them effectively other than parking them a couple hundred meters from the action and calling sync shots. Other than that they are useless and, quite often, liabilities.

[MikeWeeks]

Okay here's a problem that keeps me tearing my hair out. How do you get these idiots to actually clear the building during a vehicle drop off mission? Seriously, this should be the easy stuff: Fire! But instead all they do is run around the outside of the building as the timer ticks down, forcing me to try soloing the building and then tearing my hair out when I fail.
Seriously I hate the AI squad. I keep trying to work with them and I keep ending up just despising them. They are broken. I'm sorry, I know a lot of time and energy and love went into them but they are seriously lacking. Their behavior is counterintuitive, frustrating and, apparently, inconsistent. I have no bloody idea how to use them effectively other than parking them a couple hundred meters from the action and calling sync shots. Other than that they are useless and, quite often, liabilities.

For the clearing ops; here's the sequence that has worked for me: give the fire command after blowing more than one door (I always blow at least two). I have also used the rebels; call for them just prior to blowing any door (i.e., so they aren't standing right there in front of the door!!) I have had the AI team actually clear the building in some cases.

Another possible aspect is the skill level for the AI team.

[Frag_Maniac]

How do you get these idiots to actually clear the building during a vehicle drop off mission? Seriously, this should be the easy stuff: Fire! But instead all they do is run around the outside of the building as the timer ticks down, forcing me to try soloing the building and then tearing my hair out when I fail.

That's why I said above give a specif GoTo per room immediately followed by Fire, and of course you have to aim the Fire command well, which can be pinpointed with drone if you have the time. Another method I used on Tier One when I had all the gadgets though was Flashbangs and Grenade Launcher. If you don't mind having annoying Rebels interfere you can build up the Guns For Hire skill and call them in and wait until they get there before blowing the door. They mop up those places pretty fast, but the more you buff their skills, the more chance they'll interfere with stealth on missions.

[Scion_Drakhar]

Thanks for the suggestions (I want to say fellas but don't want to offend anyone of the feminine persuasion). Much appreciated. Blowing multiple doors helps and deliberately sending them upstairs followed by the fire command seems to seal the deal. You know that's another peeve, though. I thought once the "FIRE" order was given that any move command carried the fire instruction with it ("Keep going!") but apparently it does not. Either that or it's situational and, once again, not intuitively apparent. Idk. I just really wish these idiots were a LOT more situationally intelligent and dramatically less god-like. Watching them march down the street without so much as bothering to take cover while mopping up entire platoons of unidad on extreme difficulty does leave me feeling a bit, uhm, lacking. I really do enjoy this game quite a bit but the squad dynamic is one hell of a check in the CONS column. You know follower NPC AI must be really difficult to code cos it's been a consistent frustration for me in a great many games across a number of genres.

In any case, folks (that'll do, yeah?) thanks again for all the help and suggestions.
Cheers

PS - It really would be nice if they were smart enough to get out of the way of oncoming trains... *sigh*