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  1. #1
    The_B0G_'s Avatar Senior Member
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    Jan 2016
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    General hero balance ideas.

    I'm making this thread to discuss a different way balance attacks and heroes, mostly the damage to speed ratio, as of now it feels like it doesn't matter how fast an attack is, some attacks that are very fast, with light weapons, do as much damage or close to the damage that slower attacks with heavier weapons have. There is little to no advantage in taking slower characters, it's actually a handicap using anyone but one of the new spammy characters.

    I'm not saying that bigger weapons themselves should always do more damage, but I do feel that attacks that take longer, should definitely do a noticeable amount more that these very fast attacks.

    Damage should scale in increments of 100ms for attack speed. 400 ms should do very little damage, no matter what hero is throwing it, because it is a fast attack with nothing behind it. I feel like 400ms attacks should be almost chip damage, 500 ms should do light damage, something around 10-15 damage and then scale up from there.

    One thing about fighting that this game totally leaves out, is momentum. There is zero momentum in this game's attacks, landing a slow, powerful heavy should have much more of an effect than it does, because there's much more risk, it's way easier to defend against. Then you have characters like zerker who can literally cancel a powerful heavy attack just before it hits and follow it up with an instant hyper armor 400ms light.

    It just feels cheesy to me how there is no accountability for throwing attacks in this game, you never have to commit to any attack at all and recovery on a feint is instant, even if you are literally in the air when you cancel it. The only time anyone has any recovery on a move is when they completely whiff, and even then some heroes barely have to recover at all.

    Cooldowns/recovery times are non existent, feinting recovery time should depend on how late in the attack you feinted, if you wait until the last possible moment to feint when your attack is 95% finished when cancelled, you should not be able to hard feint and throw another attack instantly, that would put you off balance and make your attack weak. Watch any combat sport, feints are always a quick twitch of the hand or foot followed by the actual attack, no one makes it 95% of the way into a round house kick and stops to throw another attack, and if they did, they would probably get KO'd.

    TLDR: I guess to summarize, the game is feeling less realistic and more fantasy with the route the devs are going, I feel we need to get back to physics and the gritty fighting the game released with.

    Part of the solution, in my opinion, is to stop balancing attack damage based on the heroes total damage output and his kit, and instead keep damage ratios equal to the speed it takes to throw them, so if a character needs a damage buff on a certain move, raise the damage, lower the speed, make it look and feel more powerful, not just switch a number.

    Moves can still be buffed with hyper armor and unblockable and stun effects to give them variation between characters.

    Am I alone in wanting something like this, or is this new style of gameplay to everyone's liking?
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  2. #2
    Absolutely agree. Heavy classes should feel thevway they look, throwing slow attacks with great power behind it.

    Classes in general are starting to fade into oblivion, or can anyone say with a straight face that JJ is a true heavy? 😂
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  3. #3
    Finally someone who actually takes into account real fighting techniques. I've been onboard with this kind of thinking since day one and have been hoping to find someone who thought the same. All I keep reading is posts with little to no relation on how these characters weigh, what weapons they're using, nothing all I see is buff this nerf that with nothing but personal preference in mind. I addressed this in a post I made on a character balancing idea but thanks to the spam bots its been pushed to the third or forth page. I've also made a couple of comments and other posts about the way characters would fight in real life but it seems that most of the community disregards realism in favor of cinematic fighting without realizing that cinematic fighting is the main problem with this game. I'm just glad there are still a few who do their combat research.
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  4. #4
    Originally Posted by Tatsu147146 Go to original post
    Finally someone who actually takes into account real fighting techniques. I've been onboard with this kind of thinking since day one and have been hoping to find someone who thought the same. All I keep reading is posts with little to no relation on how these characters weigh, what weapons they're using, nothing all I see is buff this nerf that with nothing but personal preference in mind. I addressed this in a post I made on a character balancing idea but thanks to the spam bots its been pushed to the third or forth page. I've also made a couple of comments and other posts about the way characters would fight in real life but it seems that most of the community disregards realism in favor of cinematic fighting without realizing that cinematic fighting is the main problem with this game. I'm just glad there are still a few who do their combat research.
    Oh man. Realism? It didnt have such think since day one. Like what can katana do against LawDaddy armor. If we are about to take a mass and speed of weapons then Shugoni will be like a car with his mini tree in hands. There is absolutely no realism in this game and this company even add BS things to this. Dont even try to consider it realistic mate. Shinobi and Shaolin will kick this thoughts from ur head. I am just hurting that there is no balance at all for now.
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  5. #5
    Originally Posted by The.All.Father Go to original post
    Oh man. Realism? It didnt have such think since day one. Like what can katana do against LawDaddy armor. If we are about to take a mass and speed of weapons then Shugoni will be like a car with his mini tree in hands. There is absolutely no realism in this game and this company even add BS things to this. Dont even try to consider it realistic mate. Shinobi and Shaolin will kick this thoughts from ur head. I am just hurting that there is no balance at all for now.
    I know the game ISN'T realistic I'm stating that it should be. Also even though katanas can't SLASH Lawbringer armor in real life it can certainly STAB through it, they aren't as fragile as people think they are, they are in fact as durable if not more so than the western longsword. There are full documentaries on the katana that you can find on YouTube if you so wish. And as for Shugoki's kanabō in your statement I'm not sure I understand the comparison of " ...a car with his mini tree in hands." if you're stating that the weapon is devastating then yes you are correct. If you're stating that it is too slow than I encourage you to watch the Deadliest Warrior series if you can get your hands on it, particularly the episode of Samurai v.s. Vikings were they show a lot of the weapons and armor used here including the kanabō and how it was used and if you're strong enough it is incredibly effective.
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  6. #6
    I would be in favor of 400ms attacks doing less damage. So long as the kits that rely on them got other means of being effective. This would only nerf pk and orochi more than they already are. Same with Nuxia (till her traps are fixed anyway)
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  7. #7
    UbiInsulin's Avatar Community Manager
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    @Tatsu, We can talk about making the game feel more authentic, but FH is not really a sim.

    @The_B0G_, wouldn't these changes incentivize very careful play so you don't risk getting caught missing a weighty attack? Basically, defend until your opponent makes a mistake?
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  8. #8
    Originally Posted by UbiInsulin Go to original post
    @Tatsu, We can talk about making the game feel more authentic, but FH is not really a sim.

    @The_B0G_, wouldn't these changes incentivize very careful play so you don't risk getting caught missing a weighty attack? Basically, defend until your opponent makes a mistake?
    That’s exactly what I hate about this game people who abuse defending to the max .
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  9. #9
    Nerf blocking. Really. Just nerf blocking. All these defense related issues would magically go away if you make blocking attacks more difficult and less rewarding.
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  10. #10
    If you’re gonna talk realism than a crazy cat lady with a tomahawk and knife shouldn’t be able to catch a fat guy’s Kanabo and push it away.
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