Why For Honor is dying in the West to live in the East. | Forums

[One.Enemy]

Can't believe no one's brought this up yet, but; Rainbow Six Siege, another Ubisoft title, recently and very publicly was announced that it was going to undergo visual changes to better conform to the Chinese market it's about to enter. https://www.polygon.com/2018/11/3/18...ox-one-ubisoft
So for one game they're openly and willingy altering art assets and icons to comply with the Chinese requirements, including stuff like blood, gore and skull/skeleton imagery.

But over on For Honor, we got a 2 week event going on with the same amount of blood and gore we had at launch, but now with added skeletons roaming about as well.

If For Honor was doing anything to appeal to the Chinese market, I'm pretty sure we'd know about it.

EDIT; You always forget how powerful a tool Google can be; https://www.marketscreener.com/UBISO...-4719/company/

Guillemot Family 17,934,152 15.9%
Vivendi SA 7,590,909 6.74%
Tencent Holdings Ltd. 5,591,469 4.97%
Ubisoft Entertainment SA ESOP 3,879,192 3.45%
Fidelity Management & Research Co. 3,593,844 3.19%
The Vanguard Group, Inc. 2,218,141 1.97%
Norges Bank Investment Management 1,609,832 1.43%
Ubisoft Entertainment SA 1,587,176 1.41%
ELLIPSIS Asset Management SA 1,525,000 1.35%
Lazard Asset Management LLC 1,421,244 1.26%

Look at the Number of shares owned by a Chinese company known to share information with the Chinese government, which is required by law, so it's covered in the EULA. You also missed my point that this partnership is required by Chinese law to have access to the Chinese market. Also, if they're changing the artwork for the Chinese market, that's par for the course and also required by law. Did you know that only 34 movies are approved for Chinese audiences per year, and movie producers have to often remake several scenes just to qualify?

Found the other place where you brought this up, and I swear by the gaming Gods, journalism 101 should be taught in friggin' kindergarten.

.

Is this a veiled insult, or just you forgetting that I never claimed to be a journalist?

Secondly, quoting the aforementioned article regarding Tencents shares;

The deal keeps control of Ubisoft with CEO Yves Guillemot and his family, while giving the publisher an established channel for bringing its biggest games into the world’s largest gaming market.
The minority stake doesn’t give Tencent sway over the French company. “It is more like a piece of the action and a view into Ubisoft, the chance to publish Ubi’s games, and a better listening post in Western Europe,” says Niko Partners analyst Daniel Ahmad.
That should pretty much debunk any and all claims about Chinese influence on the game itself.

All that's left is for you to prove that Ubisoft is unlawfully sharing private user data with the Chinese government. Which would be a pretty huge deal. Like groundbreaking.

And you may have seen my response to that. The Chinese government makes the rules for the Chinese market. The art changes in Siege alone prove that point. No blood and gore. They change it to green goo. Also, any maps that look less than ideal for the Chinese government have to be changed. So obviously they DO have some creative control if Ubi wants access to the Chinese market. Also, when you look at the size of the investment, are you really going to stand there and accept that that kind of money doesn't buy you some creative control, and that a statement saying they don't is just that...PR. How do you think it would look for Ubi if they actually admitted that Tencent gets to dictate changes to a game that the West was used to playing? Of course they're going to deny any creative directives from Tencent. However, Chinese law and such a large investment say otherwise.

[One.Enemy]

On the contrary, I did want to talk about it, I just talked about how you were wrong on a few counts, proved why you were wrong on those counts, and invited you to prove the rest of us wrong on the last count.

**Edited to remove the reference, as that turned out to be a different forum user. I reacted too quickly on that, and apologize to Tundra for the mixup**

Tundra, if it's a healthy discussion, I'm all for it...but conversations work both way, and I'd hope you can agree to that.

[ChampionRuby50g]

However, despite you not having done a lick of research on the matter, or have any association with anything Chinese, and despite my statements of dealing with them daily as well as research for that, you just attempt to belittle me and what I have to say. That's not a healthy discussion. That's flame bait, and I'm afraid I'm just not in the mood for any flame wars.

It's like talking to a Trump voter about the constitution. They think it's ok for the president to yank the 14th Amendment (birthright citizenship), but no president can touch the 2nd Amendment (guns). People are only going to believe what they want to believe and apply whatever logic they think makes it easier to swallow it. You can't change their minds because their minds were never open to any opinion other than their own. So you walk away because there's only a limited amount of time on this earth. Spend it well.

How do you know Tundra hasn’t done any research, despite him providing links? How do you know he has no association with anything Chinese, or are you just assuming it? Tundra is also right in saying that you need to prove Ubi is illegally sharing private user data with the Chinese government. Because I’m sure if you had real proof, the forums of Ubisoft wouldn’t be the place to share it if you really cared. Maybe law enforcement would be a better place to start? You seem to like bringing politics and Trump into this, so I’m just gonna leave with one thing. You’re just like CNN. Fake news and a joke.

[One.Enemy]

How do you know Tundra hasn’t done any research, despite him providing links? How do you know he has no association with anything Chinese, or are you just assuming it?

**Edited to remove the quote because it was not Tundra but another forum user that had said that. I responded too quickly to Tundra and have now edited that message as well to apologize**

Tundra is also right in saying that you need to prove Ubi is illegally sharing private user data with the Chinese government. Because I’m sure if you had real proof, the forums of Ubisoft wouldn’t be the place to share it if you really cared. Maybe law enforcement would be a better place to start? You seem to like bringing politics and Trump into this, so I’m just gonna leave with one thing. You’re just like CNN. Fake news and a joke.

I raised the question based on fact for the purpose of discussion, which is the point of a forum, I believe? My statments were made based on factual Chinese law. No business may enter the Chinese market without a Chinese partner. Tencent, as a major investor, is that partner. It is known fact that Tencent (who makes Wechat) willingly and voluntarily provides all user data to the Chinese government as they are required to do.

Someone brought up the EULA in regards to sharing information, which has one loophole in it: "or as is required by law". Sharing user data and information is required by law in China.

Remember, we're talking about a country that is installing a "Social Credit Score" which can ban you from buying plane and train tickets, leaving the country, getting a loan, buying a house, and all kinds of other things for such offenses as:

Saying things the governemnt doesn't like, such as criticisms.
Not paying your bills on time
The friends you have
Playing video games too much
Jaywalking and other misdemeanors.

It's not scary that they're doing this system. It's scary that they CAN with over 220 million cameras installed now, and millions more on the way. They can track how long you play video games because Tencent has their fingers in every gaming pie in China, and shares that data with the government. No, I'm not saying they can do anything like ban you from anything in your country. I'm stating this as proof of concept that they ARE tracking everything both in and out of their country that they can get their hands on, and they have the capabilities to do so.

Also, let's keep in mind that, as per Chinese law, some of the servers will have to be located in China. Have you been assured that none of your data will not be routed through those servers?

Ubisoft wouldn’t be the place to share it if you really cared. Maybe law enforcement would be a better place to start? You seem to like bringing politics and Trump into this, so I’m just gonna leave with one thing. You’re just like CNN. Fake news and a joke.

Aren't you the defensive one. I'm not currently living in my home country (USA). I'm living in Asia. Speaking to a lawyer about this is a little off the beaten path for me, nor am I telling anyone to go to the UN Tribunal and investigate Ubi. I'm starting a discussion...something beyond your capabilities right now, it seems.

[Herbstlicht]

I got the feeling the OP, who pretty much just started a thread about ... say a suspicion - and there are not any facts Ubi is sharing data or changing For Honor - seems to sell this suspicion as fact. That feels weird to most people open to discussion about the general topic especially with him putting so much effort into defending everything including and highly speculative topics. Like, why not just asking Ubi - do you guys share user information with Tencent? Guess this topic has gotten enough attention to maybe get a read by some of the mods. Maybe we get some conformation that everything is all right and we needn't worry. Same with the adaption for the Chinese market.

Anyway, For Honor for the Chinese Market would needa be more or less some Anime-Style For Honor. Guess might even work. A game like our For Honor, just not as brutal and realistic with some completely over-the-top fighters. Oh and I guess some sexy ones too, but not too sexy because that oughta violate the next regulations there :3
Ah, kinda funny if I continue this line of thought - a brawler that is not limited to a mature audience but open to everyone, boys and girls, dads and sons - so kinda like an Overwatch or Fortnite, just as a Melee. Guess if the mechanics would be solid, I might even give it a try.

[One.Enemy]

I got the feeling the OP, who pretty much just started a thread about ... say a suspicion - and there are not any facts Ubi is sharing data or changing For Honor - seems to sell this suspicion as fact. That feels weird to most people open to discussion about the general topic especially with him putting so much effort into defending everything including and highly speculative topics. Like, why not just asking Ubi - do you guys share user information with Tencent? Guess this topic has gotten enough attention to maybe get a read by some of the mods. Maybe we get some conformation that everything is all right and we needn't worry. Same with the adaption for the Chinese market.

The facts I sold were that it is Chinese law to have a Chinese company partner with you if you want access to the Chinese market
Tencent is a major shareholder in Ubi right now
Tencent has an open information sharing relationship with the Chinese government and has been sharing their game data and Wechat posts/pics/purchases with the Chinese government for a very long time.

Feel free to look those things up before you try to sell that I'm putting out baseless suspicions.

The rest of your post seems unconstructive or snark...I can't decide, but it's not worth my input. But for someone who says they're not Chinese, nor has done actual research on life in China, you seem to assume what they think quite a bit. Is there some kind of insight you get that you're not sharing, or is this all assumption based on your own experiences and thoughts where you live?

[One.Enemy]

Does it matter? Who they do their business with is none of our f*cking business.

The theory, based on some important facts, raises the question of whether these recent game changes were in any way directed as a requirement to enter the Chinese market. I think that's a question people would want to ask, which is why I raised it. If it doesn't interest interest you, then I thank you for visiting and wish you well on your journey through the forums.

[NinjaRonin85]

It's really not hard to beleave ubisoft would sell out us out like this, if the past has shown one thing it's that they don't care about the players or the money they spend in game, they changed gears stats like 3 times undoing lots of players hard work or money spent giving zero ***** about it. All ubisoft cares about is making money that's all gaming is about now, I feel bad for all the Chinese people that buy into this game as ubisoft will screw them just like they have us.
Gaming is not what it used to be, it used to be about making a game that was awesome that everyone loved and so made loads of £, now it's about making a game as cheap as possible to make as much £ as possible, they lie cheat and steal to make money now, lost count of how many games have screwed there players over to name just a few, mass effect, star citizen, destiny, swbf2, the list goes on and on.

[One.Enemy]

It's really not hard to beleave ubisoft would sell out us out this, if the past has shown one thing it's that they don't care about the players or the money they spend in game, they changed gears stats like 3 times undoing lots of players hard work or money spent giving zero ***** about it. All ubisoft cares about is making money that's all gaming is about now, I feel bad for all the Chinese people that buy into this game as ubisoft will screw them just like they have us.
Gaming is not what it was it used to be about making a game that was awesome that everyone loved and so made loads of £, now it's about making a game as cheap as possible, they lie cheat and steal to make money now, lost count of how many games have screwed there players over to name just a few, mass effect, star citizen, destiny, swbf2, the list goes on and on.

That's what I think needs to be explored. History has shown many game developers doing this, and it's not an uncommon thing to see in general. In this case, the question is whether Tencent, on behalf of the Chinese government, caused at least some of these changes.

Given that Ubi has been completely silent on this, despite the large outcry about it, is very concerning. I'm sure that many staff are back from vacations and honeymoons now, so the next Warrior's Den will either be VERY interesting in its response or VERY telling in its silence.

We shall see in a bit.

[ChampionRuby50g]

Aren't you the defensive one. I'm not currently living in my home country (USA). I'm living in Asia. Speaking to a lawyer about this is a little off the beaten path for me, nor am I telling anyone to go to the UN Tribunal and investigate Ubi. I'm starting a discussion...something beyond your capabilities right now, it seems.

Well I consider Tundra to be a mate of mine, and I didn’t like the attitude you had towards him when he was actually trying to have an open discussion with you, so of course I was going to be defensive. I still don’t like the cut of your jib either. All I’m saying is if the issue is really as serious as you are making it out to be, a criminal offence, wouldn’t the law abiding citizen report it? I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard to email a lawyer in America or the FBI or CIA or whoever you want.