A much more strict score punishment for dishonorable Kills should be implemented | Forums

[Ulffhedinn]

The deathball startegies are now completely out of control. Its so bad that a lot of players in my server will openly say they prefer to play breach, not because it is a better mode, in fact they disagree and would say it has more issues; but because it makes deathball more difficult to do, due to the dps from minions.

I had posted about this a few weeks back. There needs to be an update to put the players back toward fighting to get kills, and not just cheesing and exploiting their way through the matches. A way to bring back some honor to the fights in dominion and breach and skirmish modes, and bring back a more 1 v 1 and maybe 2 v 1 feel to the combat. The easiest way to handle this is by utilizing the penalty system in place already, for dishonorable kills.

I would set up the changes as such:
1v1kills will net normal points
2v1 kills net only 5 points. Slightly more than killing a minion
3v1 kills subtract 50 points from the team score and no points to any individual score
4v1 kills subtract 100 points from the team score and no points to any individual score

By doing this, the deathball strategy can still be used, sure. But you will eventually lose the game if you stick to this absurd exploit of early match play. It destroys gameplay in matches for dominion and breach in particular. The game has begun to even feel boring to play against other players in the same way it is pretty boring to play bots... you expect it constantly, and the first team to reach any point has the clear advantage. The other team is now on the back foot. And NOT due to skill, but exploitation of the mechanics of the score system.

The game is currently balanced with a focus on DUELING. Devs look at dueling stats, and complaints, and since there is no gear involvement in those stats, they balance much more easily. So then it makes sense that the game should be 1 v 1 focused. 2 v 1 as it could be in brawls, at the most extreme.
Therefore the scoring system needs to be updated to reflect that type of balancing, and to force players to learn to do three things to play this game properly:

1. Situational awareness. Don't just run in and 2 v 1 and 3 v 1 someone. Players instead will be forced to take a quick moment to ask the question, "Does that person NEED help? Or can we get some points out of this kill?" Because if you lose it due to a revenge going off, you feel horrible, and if you win, you get little to nothing out of it.

2. Forces players to become better at the game. Being 1 v 1, or 2 v 1, will force players to start thinking strategically about their opponents. Much as is the case in actual duel and brawl modes. This will ultimately make the fights in dominion and breach far more rewarding, and tactical. Team startegies, and players working together to set up the best matches in the middle of the war zone will be seen and it will honestly be much more fun.

3. It will keep players honest. Yes, someone is bound to step in and try to steal your finisher... but now, doing so does more than irritate the person you stole the kill from, it will penalize you both, or even the whole team. If you want points, players will seek out the fight and EARN those points through combat. Not cheese their way through dominion four deep like a bunch of unskilled, tactically lacking, scrubs.

This system could easily be given a try by making the changes and putting the type of match as an "event" for a couple of weeks. In which players can play breach and dominion, and skirmish modes within that event. Then see if the numbers and responses are positive?

This is my idea on how to defeat the deathball problem and bring the game back a little bit closer to its original design in being about THE FIGHT, and not about the easy win.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think that 100% friendly fire would solve this problem once and for all. The only thing that bothers me in ganking is that they can hit through their team mates with unblockables. If they can gank without killing each other, they are good in what they are doing.

Your system wouldn't work, it would reward bad team work and lone wolf strategies (people would run into teams to take down points from them). It would also feel unrealistic to be forced to go separatly from your team mates. For people disliking this system, there is the duel mode (the reward should be increased for a duel btw).

[KotoKuraken]

You can't just tell a team that is coordinating effectively that they lost the game because they stuck together and fought.

Want to counter deathballs? They can only be in one place at a time, so go where they aren't. If they're bullying 1 or 2 guys in Dominion at C, go to A and cap and boost. If they're deathballing in Breach at your ram, go cap the archer points they decided not to guard.

There are strategies; use em

[sweedishpretzel]

Just because you cant fight off more than one person!? Really!? You mean to change the entire point system just because you hate getting ganked. This is ironic coming from the guy who says that players should use skill instead of spam attacks. If you were skilled at the game you would be able to fight more than one person until your team could come and help you.

[Wookiescantfly]

Just because you cant fight off more than one person!? Really!? You mean to change the entire point system just because you hate getting ganked. This is ironic coming from the guy who says that players should use skill instead of spam attacks. If you were skilled at the game you would be able to fight more than one person until your team could come and help you.

I don't want to be that guy, but For Honor's combat system was designed for 1v1 fights. Sure you can block and parry external attacks, but the core focus of the combat system is 1v1 engagement. You can only lock on to 1 target at a time, and entering the combat widget narrows your field of view to one character. Randomly switching between characters in that scenario does very little to help, and more often than not will complicate things for you defensively. This isn't even taking into account if you got hugged by a raider or a shugoki or impaled by a lawbringer who charged at you off screen and the absurd amount of punish people can dole out to you off of that alone. Then we have characters who can do bashes out of neutral while you're trying to parry someone's unblockable or block light spam that you otherwise would have been able to defend against. Deathball strat is a low risk, high reward massive exploitation of the fight system's inability to properly allow a fighter to fight multiple opponents at once and we all know it; if fighting more than one person wasn't absurdly difficult deathball strat wouldn't be as prevalent as it is.

[Fairemont]

I don't want to be that person, but if a team of four people is "deathballing" you and your team cannot defeat their deathball in a 4v4 situation and disrupt them at all, then you're not going to win.

If you can win 1v1 but not 4v4 then you will not necessary win. If you can win 4v4 but not 1v1 you will not necessarily win. But if you can win the team fights and individual fights then you can win.

[Rain-Dragon]

I think that 100% friendly fire would solve this problem once and for all. The only thing that bothers me in ganking is that they can hit through their team mates with unblockables. If they can gank without killing each other, they are good in what they are doing.

Your system wouldn't work, it would reward bad team work and lone wolf strategies (people would run into teams to take down points from them). It would also feel unrealistic to be forced to go separatly from your team mates. For people disliking this system, there is the duel mode (the reward should be increased for a duel btw).

Higher FF would make TK grieving go rampant.
There are always certain players who enjoy destroying the game for everyone else by trolling, and higher FF would give them the exact tool to do so.

[sweedishpretzel]

I don't want to be that guy, but For Honor's combat system was designed for 1v1 fights. Sure you can block and parry external attacks, but the core focus of the combat system is 1v1 engagement. You can only lock on to 1 target at a time, and entering the combat widget narrows your field of view to one character. Randomly switching between characters in that scenario does very little to help, and more often than not will complicate things for you defensively. This isn't even taking into account if you got hugged by a raider or a shugoki or impaled by a lawbringer who charged at you off screen and the absurd amount of punish people can dole out to you off of that alone. Then we have characters who can do bashes out of neutral while you're trying to parry someone's unblockable or block light spam that you otherwise would have been able to defend against. Deathball strat is a low risk, high reward massive exploitation of the fight system's inability to properly allow a fighter to fight multiple opponents at once and we all know it; if fighting more than one person wasn't absurdly difficult deathball strat wouldn't be as prevalent as it is.

You are absolutely wrong. If it a 4v4 it 4 players fighting 4 players. It's not a 1v1 1v1 1v1 1v1. Its a 4v4. Same thing for brawls its a 2v2 not a 1v1 1v1. If it was that way then the DEVS would have separated each individual player so that ganking would not be allowed. Its apart of the game to be in a 1v2, 1v3,1v4 and etc. Yes there are honorable 1v1s but people are restricted from ganking in that fight. If you as the player understand this and don't get salty about everything that happens the game would honestly be better.

[Wookiescantfly]

You are absolutely wrong. If it a 4v4 it 4 players fighting 4 players. It's not a 1v1 1v1 1v1 1v1. Its a 4v4. Same thing for brawls its a 2v2 not a 1v1 1v1. If it was that way then the DEVS would have separated each individual player so that ganking would not be allowed. Its apart of the game to be in a 1v2, 1v3,1v4 and etc. Yes there are honorable 1v1s but people are restricted from ganking in that fight. If you as the player understand this and don't get salty about everything that happens the game would honestly be better.

Obviously a 4v4 game mode is a team game mode; that much is apparent to anyone who can score higher than a candy bracelet and a shovel on an IQ test. I'm not going to argue against that, as it should be self apparent to expect some level of tactical coordination between the 4 players to achieve the greater objective of the game mode. If the game mode is a Deathmatch game mode, then by all means employ whatever tactic or stratagem you can think of to kill people the most effectively. If the game mode is Tribute, Dominion, Breach, or anything that isn't strictly a deathmatch playlist then I would greatly prefer if the other 3 goofs on my team would help me complete the objective of the game mode rather than roaming the map like a pack of starving hyenas to steal each others' kills. Contrary to popular belief, you roaming the map to beat up on one guy in the corner away from everything else does not make things any easier for the one person playing the objective any easier when they have to deal with getting 2v1 or 3v1 consistently while trying to PTFO because the rest of you are off kill mongering instead of helping. Getting ganged up on is to be expected, and I can deal with it to a degree, but so is it also to be expected that your teammates help you when you're getting dog-piled on. Don't even get me started on teammates that charge into a fight you clearly had handled only to die immediately after giving them revenge and get you killed, or the ones that just launch attacks into your back and deny your normal punishes in their insatiable need to get the most takedowns in a match for the sake of their e-peen.

None of that changes that the fight system is clearly modeled around a 1v1 fight, with very limited options for multiple target engagements. Since the devs want to balance the game more towards 4v4 game modes, then the very first thing they need to do in order to facilitate that balance change is rework the fight system to compliment that type of gameplay. As it stands, the fight system can barely handle more than 1 target, and the limitations on your field of view when locked onto a target do not make anything any easier for you. Even against 2 opponents, if they're aggressive enough the cracks in the fight system start to show and it becomes relatively easy to overwhelm most players who otherwise would have been able to make due until a teammate arrived. Intentionally roaming the map in a group to take advantage of this fact is an exploitation of that weakness in the fight system and it needs to be corrected for the game to truly be able to be balanced around 4v4 game modes.

I would like to pose a question, if ganking was an intended part of the game, ignoring all of the flaws in the fight system, then why does the dishonorable penalty even exist?

[Peenoise.PH]

I don't know why you posted this, maybe you suck at fighting multiple enemies? that's it right?

if you want a "HONORABLE" fight go spam duels, that's it.

its a 4v4 team match, it is a common sense as it is.

now if you really want to be a scrub wanting that here's an example of TEAM BASED GAME MODE

you ever saw a DOTA or League of Legends gameplay? that's a 5v5

do you ever see them playing 1v1 - 1v1 -1v1 - 1v1 - 1v1 the whole game? NO

HENCE 4V4

what do you want? a dominion match with 4 capture points where each one defends a single point over and over again with just one enemy?


and again, you ever saw the description of vanguard heroes? EARNS RENOWN BY WINNING AN OUTNUMBERED FIGHT

so overall this is what I will suggest to you


GIT GUD