A commentary on breach; turning a good mode into a great one. | Forums

[YoMemesAintDank]

what that you want something fixed? well your talking about ubisoft they cant fix anything you should know cough cough 6 months of elas ******ed smg but hey surly they try to balance this game right? wrong mosy the character has some op combo or move but ubisoft dosent worry about it they just cover over it with new weekly content like fortnite nowadays

[Wookiescantfly]

If I may ask, would you be happening to be coming here from Siege or an older Rainbow Six game?

I generally agree with just about everything you had to say, but if I may offer my own viewpoint:

> You would be correct in feeling the Guardian feels largely irrelevant to everyone except those present when he dies. A very quick and easy change to this would be to have his buffs apply to the entire team of who kills him if they are alive at that point. I encountered a bug in my first game of breach where this happened and it was a massive power shift in the enemy's favor mid fight; it helped them gain enough momentum to take the second gate where we had previously had them stonewalled. I feel this would give the guardian more purpose in the same way some of the side monsters in Smite had purpose.

> I really like your idea here, but I personally would be happy if they just stop stalking me for about 20 feet to poke me in the toes like they're Gladiator's long lost love children or something.

> Honestly if they could just change the UI so that the flag doesn't show up on the map until it's actually spawned in or give us some kind of way to know that it's spawned in other than running over to where it spawns every so often. Giving enough durability to either the ram or the gate to survive 1-2 more strikes is pretty substantial at the second gate in a pinch and controlling the banner can swing the second gate in favor of the defense or the attackers if they manage to keep it up consistently.

> Honestly gear score is largely irrelevant until you hit at least rep 7 with a given character, and even then the perk system requires so much effort to get the way you want that most are likely to really just not mess with it until they know for a fact that they have what they want. Even then, the vast majority of the new perks are incredibly underwhelming and don't shift the game near to the point that gear stats did. I imagine this was intentional so as to make the game easier to balance.

> I agree that the fight with the commander himself is largely underwhelming, however you do have to deal with him at the same time as the enemy team if they're not all dead. Him being immune to bleed, or at least Sharpened Blade, and his top heaving being both an unblockable and a knockdown is actually already a lot to deal with on top of the defenders. However, I do agree that it is just really easy to use the minion lane to bait him in range of the ballista and kill him that way, or cheese him with stuns. It definitely needs some looking at.

[CandleInTheDark]

The guardian buff was for the whole team in the closed tech test but it was felt it had too much of an effect when the whole team hadn't taken the time away from other objectives to kill him.

[Temdee.]

"An example in the flag times

All matchmade games start with 30 minutes on the clock.

First flag at 27, every game
Flag placed 26.30 (smooth run)
Spawns 22.30
Placed 21.20
Gates fall 20
Flag spawn 17
Placed 15.37 (fight over the flag so took a while)
Spawn 11.37"

The thing is, it's never a good game mechanic to not display this to all players on the field. Nobody should have to track the flag times. What makes a game competitive is that win conditions and variables are displayed to all players, clear as day, with a less rigid route on what is required to reach victory. It shouldn't just be "Alright guys we're at 15.37, lets go get that flag because the other team probably doesn't know that it spawned yet". It's never satisfying competitively to win a match because one team is less informed than the other on the rules.

Wookiescantfly, yes, I come from Siege. If you ever play ranked at high plat-diamond, perhaps you've seen me! I have been playing since day 1. I don't even mind the commander fight itself that much, it's just the fact that the lanes, and minions, are mostly rendered useless at this point. A lot of the time the defending team may have one or two players occasionally contest the ballista, but they've little benefit in holding it outside of preventing the attackers control of it. It mostly just comes down to the defenders turtling around the commander, ready to gank and then force tickets to be used. Importance must be added to the lanes on this final stage to open up the meta on how to approach it and make it a more rewarding experience.

UbiInsulin, I appreciate that. I love competition more than anything else in life, and when I played the mode I just felt like only a few things needed to be adjusted to really bring out an amazing, mechanically rewarding competitive environment. I have tried to keep my suggestions limited to changing existing mechanics instead of making new ones to showcase that a million man hours creating new assets isn't necessary in broadening the scope of the mode. I believe it can be done with what already exists, and we could have a really awesome (potentially ranked??) mode to look forward to.

[CandleInTheDark]

The thing is, it's never a good game mechanic to not display this to all players on the field. Nobody should have to track the flag times. What makes a game competitive is that win conditions and variables are displayed to all players, clear as day, with a less rigid route on what is required to reach victory. It shouldn't just be "Alright guys we're at 15.37, lets go get that flag because the other team probably doesn't know that it spawned yet". It's never satisfying competitively to win a match because one team is less informed than the other on the rules.

Ok so bearing in mind we are only a couple of weeks in from Breach being released and that players haven't had a chance to get used to all of the mechanics yet, I do think that the meta for both sides is still in the process of forming and I think that over time players will become more informed, the important thing is that the rules are and remain consistent so that individual players and teams can plan around those times and should be rewarded for better objective management. I do think that the information needs to be more out there, there needs to be something in the game that tells players things like the flag spawn times or guardian times so that players don't have to reverse engineer it or know which streamers have informational videos on it. Maybe something like for a week the game does tell players things like flag and guardian times, when the next one will be along with why and then goes back to the state it is in now, that would give enough players an understanding that they could bring later new players with them or it could be done once a season.

If players still aren't getting it in a few months then maybe yes something needs to change, but I absolutely do think that with an equal level of knowledge the people and teams who pick their moment to leave the current objective push, be it the ramparts or the ram, do deserve an advantage in getting the flag if they time it right and if they can do it unnoticed then that is on the other team, the rules are constant and people light up in your field of view when they hold the banner and they run slower, anything more in my view is too much hand holding towards the players and does not leave room to reward players for good plays.

It isn't satisfying to win it when the opponents don't know the rules, no, but if we reach a state where the majority of players do know the rules, and that is on all of us who do to share it in game chat, at least among team during the game and all after, to help with, it isn't any better engineering a mass fight around the flag by lighting it up when in reality the team who was less objectively aware was given a push to do that. If, in a state of equal knowledge of the rules or opportunity to learn them, keeping track of the time, I arrive at the spawn point two seconds before it drops, pick it up and make my way towards the objective I absolutely should have an advantage over people turning up ten seconds later or not at all because that was a good play on my part and less so on theirs, same case if they manage the objective better than I do. In the point of ranked play I suspect most players or pre-made teams who take that seriously if breach becomes ranked will know the intricacies of the mode without a helping hand.

[Temdee.]

Ok so bearing in mind we are only a couple of weeks in from Breach being released and that players haven't had a chance to get used to all of the mechanics yet, I do think that the meta for both sides is still in the process of forming and I think that over time players will become more informed, the important thing is that the rules are and remain consistent so that individual players and teams can plan around those times and should be rewarded for better objective management. I do think that the information needs to be more out there, there needs to be something in the game that tells players things like the flag spawn times or guardian times so that players don't have to reverse engineer it or know which streamers have informational videos on it. Maybe something like for a week the game does tell players things like flag and guardian times, when the next one will be along with why and then goes back to the state it is in now, that would give enough players an understanding that they could bring later new players with them or it could be done once a season.

If players still aren't getting it in a few months then maybe yes something needs to change, but I absolutely do think that with an equal level of knowledge the people and teams who pick their moment to leave the current objective push, be it the ramparts or the ram, do deserve an advantage in getting the flag if they time it right and if they can do it unnoticed then that is on the other team, the rules are constant and people light up in your field of view when they hold the banner and they run slower, anything more in my view is too much hand holding towards the players and does not leave room to reward players for good plays.

It isn't satisfying to win it when the opponents don't know the rules, no, but if we reach a state where the majority of players do know the rules, and that is on all of us who do to share it in game chat, at least among team during the game and all after, to help with, it isn't any better engineering a mass fight around the flag by lighting it up when in reality the team who was less objectively aware was given a push to do that. If, in a state of equal knowledge of the rules or opportunity to learn them, keeping track of the time, I arrive at the spawn point two seconds before it drops, pick it up and make my way towards the objective I absolutely should have an advantage over people turning up ten seconds later or not at all because that was a good play on my part and less so on theirs, same case if they manage the objective better than I do. In the point of ranked play I suspect most players or pre-made teams who take that seriously if breach becomes ranked will know the intricacies of the mode without a helping hand.

I understand what you're getting at, and I think the flag SHOULD be a reward for teammate, just in a different way. As I mentioned it could be a win condition for something on the balista lane, perhaps even destroying the guardian. Personally I just don't grabbing a flag at x time and taking it to y to be a particularly rewarding experience for something so important to the flow of battle. I feel there should just be a little more substance in the acquisition of it.

Flag aside, I do feel that the third section of the battle is the one in most dire need of an update.

[CRIMS0NM0NKEY]

As a game mode I like breach alot more than I thought I would. I didn't see a tutorial explaining everything so there is ALOT I had to YouTube. The flag can make or break a team so I think it and the person carring it should be highlighted in game....maybe an announcement of some kind when it available.

I dislike being an attacker. Mostly because it's too easy for a defending team to deathball at the beginning. If they gave revives 100percent health at the beginning, 75 percent at the middle point, and 50 percent at the end it would help. Also if there was a delay in the arrival of the defending teams minions it would help because the first thing attacker have to do us clear minions in front of the Ram or run to the first zone. When the defending heros show up your already winded or oos and right next to a bunch of their minions.

[Temdee.]

As a game mode I like breach alot more than I thought I would. I didn't see a tutorial explaining everything so there is ALOT I had to YouTube. The flag can make or break a team so I think it and the person carring it should be highlighted in game....maybe an announcement of some kind when it available.

I dislike being an attacker. Mostly because it's too easy for a defending team to deathball at the beginning. If they gave revives 100percent health at the beginning, 75 percent at the middle point, and 50 percent at the end it would help. Also if there was a delay in the arrival of the defending teams minions it would help because the first thing attacker have to do us clear minions in front of the Ram or run to the first zone. When the defending heros show up your already winded or oos and right next to a bunch of their minions.

Deathballing is a lot of the reason why I'm suggesting a more important third lane. It's easy for defenders to do as such because the path to victory for the attackers is so rigid. While I'd prefer something more elaborate to the flag system, that's a good start!

You bring up a good point with the revival system, it isn't something I had considered previously. I'll have to ponder and get back to you on that one.

[Sassergiflegend]

Breach is a wonderful turn in for Ubisoft.The continuum of elegance that shows from an often forged chaotic battle is an accomplishment that I have enjoyed under the producers hand. I am happy while playing this game, thus job well done.

Standing by the convoy in a pit, Charging the battering ram to the gate. Reducing contestants for a refreshed victory is an enjoyment in ephemeral chances.. The teammates continue to run off to accomplish their tasks. In my length of play there has not been much for changing the system. The system actions processed and played smoothly.

As a centurion the battle is dynamically based. I enjoy the strength of will the centurion provides around the area. Assuredly the battles become pitched, as for now I stand next to the column. Manning the system to bring the over team down your travel might pitch you out to one facing two really tuned A.I.s. Through experience the positive push of the shied bearers is to be utilized. Using the shield bearers the chance of survival increases. Seeking a path away becomes complicated so while you rotate with the shield bearers. enjoy the bites of the weapons.


The flag system of For Honor, is a rising plot. As fresh as the problem is there is a reaction based on recognition. Steering a shallow path to a flag that is not there pulses out a losing circuit. Of course not showing the flag on the radar until there is an opening for use is productive.

The Breach system was not made for a speedy system. Time based chunks precondition the fight and have not showed a need for change.

[Temdee.]

Breach is a wonderful turn in for Ubisoft.The continuum of elegance that shows from an often forged chaotic battle is an accomplishment that I have enjoyed under the producers hand. I am happy while playing this game, thus job well done.

Standing by the convoy in a pit, Charging the battering ram to the gate. Reducing contestants for a refreshed victory is an enjoyment in ephemeral chances.. The teammates continue to run off to accomplish their tasks. In my length of play there has not been much for changing the system. The system actions processed and played smoothly.

As a centurion the battle is dynamically based. I enjoy the strength of will the centurion provides around the area. Assuredly the battles become pitched, as for now I stand next to the column. Manning the system to bring the over team down your travel might pitch you out to one facing two really tuned A.I.s. Through experience the positive push of the shied bearers is to be utilized. Using the shield bearers the chance of survival increases. Seeking a path away becomes complicated so while you rotate with the shield bearers. enjoy the bites of the weapons.


The flag system of For Honor, is a rising plot. As fresh as the problem is there is a reaction based on recognition. Steering a shallow path to a flag that is not there pulses out a losing circuit. Of course not showing the flag on the radar until there is an opening for use is productive.

The Breach system was not made for a speedy system. Time based chunks precondition the fight and have not showed a need for change.

The only way the flag system, as it currently stands would make sense is if the time to place it is increased. It is too large a reward for a mechanic based on memorization, ESPECIALLY with the mechanics of the Shaolin's teleportation.