Shoalin is broken af | Forums

[CSaunders95]

It is in no way a cop out. The unsolicited ideas policy clearly does not apply because I just solicited feedback. That policy is mainly there for when people pitch their game ideas to us.

Specific moves or areas of the kit that need looking at would be helpful to me in writing something more comprehensive to summarize the community's feelings - i.e. do these aspects of Shaolin need less damage, less speed, or to be less safe, for example.

Let me put this in a nicer way than the arrogant man above me.

Basically the problem with the Shaolin is a lot of his attacks are extremely unreactable on console. I think this stems not just because they are generally fast but because the problem is his incoming attacks are not very prominent in his animations, due to the nature of his weapon.

Every character apart from him has a bladed or large weapon and their guard stance is clearly shown by which side they hold their weapon without the need for the widget.
The Shaolin on the other hand has extremely minor movements with his guard hand, which means if he is about to throw his attack you need to literally wait for the red guard stance to show, which when we're talking 400-500ms is extremely hard.


Another point to note is a lot of his attacks appear to be undodgable which means assassins struggle a huge amount, because they rely on dodge attacks to counter attack quick moves. Seeing as half the roster is assassin based, this is probably where the frustration stems from. Not many characters actually have undodgable moves and the ones that do are easily recognised, however the Shaolins look and feel very similar to his other attacks, couple that in to his animations being extremely hard to read and you have a killer combo. As most people will try and dodge them, and the tracking will just kick in.


I think the best way to balance him, would be to either exadurate his arm movements to more easily convey his intentions and guard stance or remove the undodgable properties on some of his attacks, meaning that he can be punished more easily by dodges.



I think if you were to play Shaolin in hardcore mode without the stance widget, he would probably be neigh unreadable.

I think that is honestly the problem, as most characters in hardcore mode can be read just from the character actions, however Shaolin has pretty must a consistent hidden stance effectively from his weapon. Combined with his moveset and its just too much.

[Turk-Adam]

It is in no way a cop out. The unsolicited ideas policy clearly does not apply because I just solicited feedback. That policy is mainly there for when people pitch their game ideas to us.

Specific moves or areas of the kit that need looking at would be helpful to me in writing something more comprehensive to summarize the community's feelings - i.e. do these aspects of Shaolin need less damage, less speed, or to be less safe, for example.

I meant I hear that a lot from ubi reps on the forums and I'm not sure the community is being heard. With all the issues around balancing we get a warriors den about cosmetics...

I don't want to be the guy that says nerf this or nerf that. I like Shaolin, I don't play it but it's nice.

I'm merely agreeing with the OP that Shaolin does in fact have too many fancy tricks compared to the other heroes in the game. It creates a multi-facet offense for the Shaolin.

The older heroes we've grown intimate with are just left in the back burner playing defensive hoping to catch a mistake to get a counter attack.

I would encourage the development team to recognize the problems that are in the game per others on the forums and consider older heroes when designing new ones or making changes.

[iadvisoryi]

It's no surprise. But the people who use OP characters tell us all to git gud. Which unfortunately is what we have to do. We have to be 1000x better than our opponent simply because of the characters we all choose to play as. That's the logic of the game unfortunately. It's very stupid, but not so shocking that you're expected to pay $30 USD to access these characters. Making them OP is an incentive to draw money out of our pockets just to stay competitive. I literally just light spam them with Orochi half the time and it does the trick. The idea of beating ridiculous characters by using other ridiculous characters.... no game should be like that.

They did that with the last bunch nobody complained, it's DLC. Shaolin isn't broken, all of the wulin are fine, they're all strong but none broken, so go practice. Anyone who thinks it's pay to win get out of the community, never use any dlc characters then, it's not pay to win, it's pay for early access, go practice and yes git gud because they're balanced and I use low tier characters.

[Rhyza.]

What specific changes would you make to Shaolin?

I did see people remarking that the newer characters' movesets make the older characters look more flawed in comparison. I've made sure to let the team know that some players are feeling this way.

Err, you did make the older characters mostly irrelevant. Just look at Tiandi. He was given so many tools to work with for a Vanguard, while Warden was reduced to a SB spam bot, Raider who's only gimmick is his carry, and Kensei into a turtle. JJ is just an assassin with a heavies hyper armor and infinite stamina, Nuxia is the more balanced type, just because she can't play as aggressively as the others, and Shaolin is god with every tool in the game offered to him.

My issue is that they all have great kits. They just leave everybody else in their class in the dust. Why play the other 18 characters when you have these four that can do everything everybody else can, just better?

[The.All.Father]

They did that with the last bunch nobody complained, it's DLC. Shaolin isn't broken, all of the wulin are fine, they're all strong but none broken, so go practice. Anyone who thinks it's pay to win get out of the community, never use any dlc characters then, it's not pay to win, it's pay for early access, go practice and yes git gud because they're balanced and I use low tier characters.

Hahahaha, yeah right buddy. Shugoki is on the same spot as shaolin, and Raider is the best duelist, shaolin dont have chances with them !!1!1 When u are devoted to a game, and u play it everyday it is not fun to lose over and over with new chars, not cause u dont know the moves, but for the fact that u know, and u cant do nothing to stop it.They are not balanced when we compare them to the OG cast without rework. SURE, u can win against them, but it doesn't mean that they are balanced xD (i think your brain need this explanation man.). It is about the speed of attacks, feats (christ, dont tell me that teleporting kick is ok...) and whole POSSIBLE mix ups and many more. My opinion is, that they are not even close to be balanced if we compare them to the OG cast (including fatboi and daddy and raider and more), but with whom u think we should compare them ? Only between their own faction or what? THIS is why u dont add to the rotten core. First u need to fix it UBI. And u iadvisoryi, i bet u are not playing low tier, but u are definitely low brain with your "git gud", tfu.

[Herbstlicht]

So much hate and mainly only because something is new. Not gonna say I can exactly tell where Shaolin stands on console, but I don't think he beats out berserker or orochi when it comes to reactability. Keeping guard top helps against top lights. His heavy is easily distinguished from neutral and slow. If he goes for side light, you can block, Dodge, Parry. If he really lands his chain, the damage isn't all that high. Now from qi people that panic get a problem, people that don't have a good time. Basically, it's dodging to evade a top light due to kick or wait for any other attack. Side heavys are slow and can be parried, top heavy too. Side lights can be parried as well, though those are rather fast. Now if a berserker hits you with his zone, a few times with his chain or even gets a finisher in ... How much more damage does he deal? Really, if you're struggling with fast attacks, Shaolin isn't the worst offender due a not-too-spammy gameplay that enables the opponent to strike himself. Only thing that might be strong is his teleport kick. But many fears in breach are strong. You just need to use them right. Anyway, I am convinced that balancing is good those days. Conq still a little over the top, maybe JJ too strong in breach, but besides,bi think generally it's ok. Let them push out some more reworkscand everything should be fine.

[Tareyus]

Yes, this is exactly the problem on the console. We already have a shat ton of light spam here that we can't react to. We don't want another hero that we can't react to in the game. The devs keep thinking that console and pc is the same.

[Herbstlicht]

In a state where almost every hero can throw 500 Ms lights, it becomes a new Standart and balance in it's own right. It even becomes more like traditional fighters where you needa read animations and guess right due to the speed of the game. So yes, defence is harder on console, but what? We got a faster paced game but everyone is in the same boat. Besides, we have more viable than not viable heroes for breach and even duel today compared to some seasons ago.
Oh and if you wonder why I defend the game: it simply is fun those days.

[Soldier_of_Dawn]

Speaking on a more general note, don't nerf any of the Wu Lin but balance the rest of the characters quicker. Reworks and character balancing should be done monthly instead of two every three months since we have a 22 hero roster.

[Siegfried-Z]

Shaolin is fine.

I play on PS4 and i don't get why Shaolin makes people angry like that.

You guys complain about speed, 400ms hits etc... then you should complain about Nuxia with her 400ms lights chain + mix up with traps in.

Or you should complain about Tiandi second lights at 400ms despite of beiing a Vanguard.

Or Maybe JJ having lights at 500ms with 20dmg and 400ms softfeint despite of beiing a Heavy .. Don't u think ?