Shinobi NEEDS a Rework, and THIS Is How They Should Do It | Forums

[Ru_Bolton]

I'd like to preface this critique by saying, I love Shinobi. And of course, there's a lot to love. The absurdly high skill ceiling. The high apm when played effectively. The one-of-a-kind movement unique only to this character, in this game, exclusively.

But our favourite ninja boi, I'm sorry to admit, has become overly stale. EFB has been preaching this for a while, I know BadTracer has too; the cream of the crop when it comes to high calibre Shinobi mains. After many hours of playtime invested in the character, I'm beginning to feel it myself. When the only viable openers, punishes, and finishers for the character consist of either double light attack or some variety of smoke dash mixup, it's not hard to see why the character has plummeted in popularity since their release.

Fortunately, there's an easy fix, something Shinobi should have had from the very beginning, and sorely needs now.

The zone attack sucks. It has always sucked. Anyone who has used the move will tell you. 15 damage guaranteed if the first two hits aren't blocked, and an additional 10 damage if by some miracle the final hit isn't parried? Worthless. It's sole utility is a mediocre soldier clear, which drains a third of your stamina whenever it's used.

There is a way, however, to make it both useful and fun to use with a couple of tweaks. First, let Shinobi be able to hard-feint the move after the second hit (the one that does 5 damage unblocked). Almost every other character with a multi-hit zone attack can do this. frankly Shinobi should already be able to do so. Second, triple (yes, triple, perhaps even more) the damage of the final hit to 30 damage or higher. Threatening a non-guaranteed, non-feint-able, slow, 10 damage strike is just a non-starter for the move on the whole. I'd even be at peace if the final hit was unblockable, like Aramusha's is, with the indicator showing just after the second hit, creating a powerful pseudo-50/50.

These changes will improve a few important things Shinobi has been struggling with. A cancelable zone attack will add a much-needed fresh mix-up to the character, even if the damage values for the first two strikes aren't changed. It will also improve his anti-gank potential, as right now, he has little-to-no options therein aside from dodging, sticking and moving, or running away entirely.

Should the damage for the final hit be drastically increased, it also provides Shinobi with a new optimal knockdown punish, a much-welcomed change-of-pace from the heavy-light combo us Shinobi mains are so wearily accustomed to. Unless the timings and distances for the moves are changed, you can land all three strikes of the zone attack from a side throw if the opponent is out of stamina, or if you are in revenge.


And there you have it. A simple, relatively foolproof solution to the Shinobi problem. He's awful to play at the moment. He's awful to play against at the moment. What is there to lose by making this easy change?

Let me know what you guys think, and thanks for reading!

P.S. Yeah yeah I know. 'Unsolicited suggestions'. This is more 'feedback' than an original concept or idea, as evidenced by the many other characters who bear these qualities.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I understand that most of his tools are weak, his kick is not a hard dodge (though it deals 25 damage and is not punishable by gb), his ranged game is useless, his zone is useless, he has a poor reflex guard. However, he has insane mobility that keeps him out of other heroes range, and his damage is also insane: 40 damage on a guardbreak, and god knows how much on a deflect (and his deflect breaks hyperarmor). His health is not 90 anymore, so it feels really high. I think he needs a rework, buff on his toolset and some new tools, but giving him an outright buff with these numbers, mobility and safe playstyle would make him broken. He must also lose something to gain anything in return.

[Ru_Bolton]

I understand that most of his tools are weak, his kick is not a hard dodge (though it deals 25 damage and is not punishable by gb), his ranged game is useless, his zone is useless, he has a poor reflex guard. However, he has insane mobility that keeps him out of other heroes range, and his damage is also insane: 40 damage on a guardbreak, and god knows how much on a deflect (and his deflect breaks hyperarmor). His health is not 90 anymore, so it feels really high. I think he needs a rework, buff on his toolset and some new tools, but giving him an outright buff with these numbers, mobility and safe playstyle would make him broken. He must also lose something to gain anything in return.

I totally understand where you're coming from. Whether it would be completely broken or not remains to be seen, but what exactly do you think he should lose to compensate for such a change?

[Goat_of_Vermund]

Nothing big. A decreased light followup on succesful heavies (from 10 to 5-7), and maybe a little stamina cost increase on a backflip after the kick would be enough I think.

[PepsiBeastin]

He needs wayyy more than a cancelable zone. I made this post a while back with possible changes to every character at the time, including shinobi.
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...ross-the-board


Shinobi-
-Ranged heavies can now be soft feinted into a roll.
-Heavy attack after a roll now tracks opponents who dodge, and comes out faster.
-Backflips gain dodge frames, similar to nobushi's hidden stance.
-Kicks now take more stamina, scaling up if initiated after a quadruple dodge.
-Shinobi zone is now similar to conqueror's zone, yet with dodge instead. During the duration, he dodges all attacks besides unblockables yet can be parried.

[Bug fix: After deflecting kensei, shinobi would occasionally be placed to far away to use kick]

[Tyrjo]

He needs wayyy more than a cancelable zone. I made this post a while back with possible changes to every character at the time, including shinobi.
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...ross-the-board


Shinobi-
-Ranged heavies can now be soft feinted into a roll.
-Heavy attack after a roll now tracks opponents who dodge, and comes out faster.
-Backflips gain dodge frames, similar to nobushi's hidden stance.
-Kicks now take more stamina, scaling up if initiated after a quadruple dodge.
-Shinobi zone is now similar to conqueror's zone, yet with dodge instead. During the duration, he dodges all attacks besides unblockables yet can be parried.

[Bug fix: After deflecting kensei, shinobi would occasionally be placed to far away to use kick]

Shinobi is already super annoying to fight. What you are proposing here sounds like absolute cancer.

[Gabeeee.]

I understand that most of his tools are weak, his kick is not a hard dodge (though it deals 25 damage and is not punishable by gb), his ranged game is useless, his zone is useless, he has a poor reflex guard. However, he has insane mobility that keeps him out of other heroes range, and his damage is also insane: 40 damage on a guardbreak, and god knows how much on a deflect (and his deflect breaks hyperarmor). His health is not 90 anymore, so it feels really high. I think he needs a rework, buff on his toolset and some new tools, but giving him an outright buff with these numbers, mobility and safe playstyle would make him broken. He must also lose something to gain anything in return.

While he does get a lot of dmg off deflect (which is not confirmed) it is deserved with shinobi not having a dodge attack that makes it the most unsafe deflect in the game

[Gabeeee.]

.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

He can kick on dodge, and the followup is automatic, you also deal damage on accidental deflects. I think his is the safest. Valks might be stronger at the end, but he beats all other assassins. And most have different dodge attack input and deflect followup (excluding orochi).

[Gabeeee.]

He can kick on dodge, and the followup is automatic, you also deal damage on accidental deflects. I think his is the safest. Valks might be stronger at the end, but he beats all other assassins. And most have different dodge attack input and deflect followup (excluding orochi).

With shinobi's deflect attempts are the most unsafe because if he goes for a deflect 100% of the time he will be gb out of it unlike all others assasins where there is a 50/50 either they do their dodge attack of just normally dodge it



Shinobi doesn't have this option making his the most unsafe in the game