1. #1
    SixKeys's Avatar Senior Member
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    Mentors Guild Community Discussion - The Identity of Assassin's Creed

    Hi all,

    We've had a few weeks break in discussion topics as Reddit Mentor Turul was busy with RL stuff. Now he's back and so are the discussions on both the subreddit and the forums!


    WARNING:

    This is a spoiler free thread! Do not post spoilers or the mod team will be alerted!



    MAKING SURE THE FANS ARE HEARD

    As part of a set of new Community Initiatives, we'd like to give opportunities to the community to give more direct feedback, and will now host weekly discussion on specific topics that relate the Assassin's Creed Franchise. These community discussions will take place on the AC subreddit, the Official Ubisoft Forums, and on the Mentors Guild Twitter. These discussions will be open for 1 week. The threads and responses will be shared directly with the Assassin's Creed Community Development team, who will then pass that info on to concerned parties within Ubisoft itself.
    While the Mentors get opportunities to speak directly with the creators of Assassin’s Creed and frequently communicate with the Community Development Team, this is not the case for every fan. We want to change that. We want fans to have their voices heard directly, in the same ways the Mentors do. These activities are a step towards meeting this goal. If you want Ubisoft to see what you have to say, this is the place to do it.

    THIS WEEK'S TOPIC

    Topic: The Identity of Assassin's Creed


    Info: Over the past decade the Assassin's Creed franchise has evolved in many ways, from historical eras, to multiplayer experiences, and minor and major changes to the parkour, stealth, and combat of the core titles. Assassin's Creed: Origins marked the beginning of a new era for the franchise, adding RPG-like mechanics, shedding of Social Stealth, and featuring the franchise's first proto-Assassin. Assassin's Creed: Odyssey continued the evolution and became the first full-on RPG of the franchise, with character selection, dialogue options, and an abundance of new abilities of gear. These major changes were met with equal parts praise and criticism, and ultimately has led to larger discussion about the identity of the Assassin's Creed franchise, and whether this new path is the right, or wrong direction.

    QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER

    -What makes a game an 'Assassin's Creed game', in your opinion?


    -What are the necessary components of an Assassin's Creed game?


    -What are the things that can't or shouldn't be done in an Assassin's Creed game?


    -Do you think Origins is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?


    -Do you think Odyssey is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?


    -How do you feel about this new RPG direction for the franchise?


    -What is the identity of Assassin's Creed in your opinion?



    REMEMBER

    While these discussions are meant to allow for honest and raw feedback directly from the community, the best way to ensure your voice is heard is to be constructive - be critical of the process, not the people. Be specific with your criticisms and suggest tangible solutions and improvements. We hope to see active participation and that this will be a successful way of getting the fans' voices truly heard.
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  2. #2
    ProdiGurl's Avatar Senior Member
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    -How do you feel about this new RPG direction for the franchise?
    Don't have time for others yet, but this one is easy,
    LOVE IT. I hope they always stay with RPG - makes me feel so much more involved, invested and immersed in the story and the characters within it.
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  3. #3
    cawatrooper9's Avatar AC Forum Moderator
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    Spoiler:  Show
    Hmmm, should be interesting to see how, after Odyssey, answers compare to this.


    What makes a game an 'Assassin's Creed game', in your opinion?
    Honestly, I'm pretty open to a variety of interpretations. Generally, I think that it either has to focus on some historical period or be entrenched in the Modern Day Assassin storyline.

    I know this may be arbitrary, but I also think the open world aspect is pretty important, too.

    I guess I'm willing to keep an open mind as the franchise evolves. If it carries the Assassin's Creed name, I'm at least willing to give it a shot.
    What are the necessary components of an Assassin's Creed game?
    There's been a lot of talk on this in the past, with discussion on the Core Pillars, the 10 Commandments, etc.


    What I think gets often left out is the fact that the developers have been pretty open about the fact that they no longer think that these rigid structures should necessarily be so limiting.

    I think everyone has their own idea of what the series should be, and I believe that in a series that is why it's always adapting it's important to share your thoughts on how you feel.

    But for now, if I had to say what I felt were the necessary components of the series, I'd simply say: "single player, open world historical story".

    Then there's other stuff that seems obvious, though. Parkour? Violence? Secret societies? Cut scenes?
    I mean, personally I hope they all stay, but the series reach is so wide that I'm not sure whether or not we can necessarily say these are inherent to the identity, at least anymore.

    What are the things that can't or shouldn't be done in an Assassin's Creed game?
    The biggest sin, I think, is directly contradicting previous lore.

    That's not to say that it's not possible to come up with reasonable ways to reimagine the truth, especially if they improve the series. I'm willing, for instance, to suspend some disbelief in how the Animus works if it means for deeper game mechanics. Same for if a creative reinterpretation might enrich the lore.


    Do you think Origins is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?


    Do you think Odyssey is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?
    Absolutely, no question. If anything, the debate should be over their importance to the lore, not what the label should say.
    How do you feel about this new RPG direction for the franchise?
    On its own, it's fun.

    Personally, I prefer the older forms of progression, but I totally see the appeal of the RPG structure as well.

    And for what it's worth, my wife is super into the new RPG stuff.

    What is the identity of Assassin's Creed in your opinion?
    I feel like I've covered this a bit already, but basically, I am willing to expand my interpretation of the series to whatever gets the AC label (within reason) on it and reserve my judgment for later. We already know what AC has been in the past, but imagine if these games were limited only by what was already in the series: the mission structure of ACII, Assassin Recruits and multiplayer in Brotherhood, sailing in ACIII, co-op in Unity...all of these things were evolutions of the series that may not have been possible if more rigid interpretations had been enforced.


    As always, thanks Six!
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  4. #4
    -What makes a game an 'Assassin's Creed game', in your opinion?
    -What are the necessary components of an Assassin's Creed game?
    -What is the identity of Assassin's Creed in your opinion?

    The historical open-world settings, realized with that great mix of accuracy and "better than reality" fantasy.
    Being a third person action adventure.
    A small dose of fantasy/scifi (first civ stuff).
    The option for a stealthy approach to gameplay.

    -What are the things that can't or shouldn't be done in an Assassin's Creed game?
    I would say multiplayer has no point and is a waste of resources, to me it`s a SP franchise.
    But it`s Ubisofts franchise, they rarely disappoint me, so easy for me to say: Do whatever you want.

    -Do you think Origins is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?
    -Do you think Odyssey is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?

    They meet all the answers I gave above, so yes.


    -How do you feel about this new RPG direction for the franchise?
    Odyssey has the exact amount of RPG that I like. The progression/upgrade loop works, but without the annoying micro-management you see on some "hardcore" RPGs.
    Examples:
    -Six materials for everything, no chest filled with 200 mini-icons for 200 kinds of leather. You want to collect materials all the same.
    -The dialogs are just enough to get you invested in the characters. But you don`t have to listen to "20 years ago my friend`s sister`s nephew broke an ankle trying to kick a branch that had fallen from an old tree which was probably a pine tree, or maybe another kind, it`s hard to tell."
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  5. #5
    Okay, so... what discussion? Usually you ask a series of questions and they get answered individually.

    Most times, when people respond to you Six, you don't respond back.

    It's a bit frustrating because we're "supposed to be heard" but it's no different than the mods here saying they'll pass along our issues/requests. The difference though, is that they're paid employees and have guidelines to follow.

    How does one become a "mentor" anyway?
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  6. #6
    I can answer the whole post in one statement: AC has always been about "time traveling" in an animus to locate PoEs. Most generally it's by or for the Assassins, even in AC 1, with the twist notwithstanding.

    All of these games have met this criteria in one form or another, with some giving us the ability to actually play in the modern day, directly getting these items, at least in 1-3, the rest we sort of "hear about in passing", I guess.

    I guess there is one question that isn't covered in that, the RPG elements, and I welcome them. The old formula was getting very stale, so much so that even Egypt wouldn't have been a good enough draw to make me buy another one. The change in both cycle, and basic direction were both welcome, and frankly, I wake up every day hearing the ship shanties from OD in my head, which is, to me, a good indication that a game has me hooked. The musician in me latches on to that above all else, if the game is keeping me engaged, so I'd say Ubi was successful in hooking me for this title.
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  7. #7
    LaMOi's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by ProdiGurl Go to original post
    -How do you feel about this new RPG direction for the franchise?
    Don't have time for others yet, but this one is easy,
    LOVE IT. I hope they always stay with RPG - makes me feel so much more involved, invested and immersed in the story and the characters within it.
    I love the direction the series has taken.


    The AC series has always frustrated me in a number of ways.

    Firstly, due to being too restrictive and linear in past games.

    Thankfully, Origins and Odyssey are the least linear games in the series Iíve played.

    Although, Iím not entirely convinced about having level gating..?

    But if the goal of RPG is greater immersion, look to RDR2 for inspiration!
    They donít have numbers or level gating!

    AND Having those kinds of details in an AC game is something I crave.

    Chk this ó https://youtu.be/Gr6ppAx5150

    Would love to have those kinds of immersive details in an AC game.

    Also ó THANK YOU for making the animus and modern day sections brief.. Always the most BORING parts of the AC games.

    ODYSSEY is generally great ó donít be afraid to follow this direction. These games donít always have to focus exclusively on assassins and templars... Itís a big Universe.

    I think it fits in the AC universe! And I think it is an AC game. If it walks like a Duck and quacks likes a Duck ó must be a Duck!

    Part of the issue is some past elements have been ditched !
    Although I much prefer the traditional stealth of these later games (thank goodness we have a crouch!). Stealth in Odyssey is decent.
    However ó itís bizarre and I think sad to see social stealth completely scrapped!
    Some of those elements were good ideas and deserve to be brought back! So you can do social and traditional stealth...
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  8. #8
    LaMOi's Avatar Senior Member
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    Oh yeah ó can we have feudal japan please?? Finally......?
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  9. #9
    My opinion on the matter is an extremely unpopular so I'm ready for the hate.

    -What makes a game an 'Assassin's Creed game', in your opinion?
    Open-world -> Gives a lot of power with stealth options since the player solely decides when and how an engagement happens. If you can't stealth, at the very least you get the first hit on the enemies.
    Parkour -> One of the most defining features of AC. They're the ones who popularized parkour in games as a sub-feature (you know, not Mirror's Edge). This adds to the point stated above regarding options.
    Historical setting -> particularly unexplored ones in other video games. I believe they have stated this themselves. I also like the 1:1 ratio maps they did in Unity and Syndicate.
    All Assassination moves -> obviously
    Gray morals -> Templars weren't just bad guys. They mean well but their ways are arguably unethical. I love the dialogue between the protagonist and the targets after their assassination. AC1 really shined on this aspect. Also, those Templars were targeted because Assassins disagree with them. Not just because they're in the way. This is why Black Flag is one of my lowest scoring AC.
    Stealth-Action game -> I liked them best when stealth was more prominent than combat.


    -What are the things that can't or shouldn't be done in an Assassin's Creed game?
    Inventory management. Damage values. Clothing/equipment with varying stats. Crafting ammunition.
    I absolutely dislike the fact that every once in a while, I now have to shuffle around my inventory and dismantle some things because my inventory is getting full of unwanted items.
    I hate having to craft arrows in a middle of combat. It breaks momentum.

    -Do you think Origins is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?
    Yes. Really good perspective on a man that fights for his family and for the people. He's a man who's out for revenge but takes the time to serve those who needed him. They're not just side-quests, it's part of his life's story and who he is.
    I like the mechanics behind darts and arrows in this game. Also, they didn't recycled map layouts in this game unlike in Odyssey.
    -Do you think Odyssey is an 'Assassin's Creed game'? Why or why not?
    Other than those words are written on the title, no. I'm alright with the absence of hidden blade because of lore reasons and also a nice change I guess. It's just the assassinations are too weak. Hiding bodies are finicky. It's hard to one-shot with bow. If you do, you launch their body to kingdom come and back so GREAT STEALTH. No more haystack assassinations. Good luck with running assassinations too, you'll never know if it will kill them or not.

    -How do you feel about this new RPG direction for the franchise?
    It's a fun game whatever Odyssey was. I'm just sad about the fact that a lot of people like this except for me thus, the AC I knew and loved will never be made again since this is waaaay more popular. You can't just hidden blade a fort now. You have to be OP with skills. Rush assassinations are OP. Critical assassinations are a waste of time since a lot of enemies are still alive after it and even if it did 1-hit kill everyone, you might not have enough adrenaline points to clear the fort. I'm only consistently 1-hitting them when I'm overleveled.
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  10. #10
    cawatrooper9's Avatar AC Forum Moderator
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    Originally Posted by Alarick7 Go to original post

    Good luck with running assassinations too, you'll never know if it will kill them or not.

    Do you have/have you upgraded the Sixth Sense ability? Makes the running assassinations so much easier.


    In fact, that's kind of related to the topic, too. One thing Assassin's Creed seems entwined with for me is the combination of parkour and stealth- part of which I'd see as "running assassinations". There's been a lot of talk about how Origins dropped the Social Stealth, but I also think the more traditional stealth was changed quite a bit, too. It became slower and more methodical- rather than running through a fort and stabbing backs as you went, you instead stuck to the shadows and slowly picked people off one by one.

    Personally, I prefer the old "fast and loose" way of stealth kills better, and that's part of the reason why Sixth Sense and Rush Assassination are some of my favorite skills in Odyssey. But I wonder if some people prefer the more restrained and methodical approach?
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