Marching Fire - Perks Feedback | Forums

[VolatileKnight]

Did you read the negative reviews? They mostly speak of the DC issues, not the perks one.

And on the steam forum, no one is asking to bring back stats. Same on reddit.

"No one wants gear stats back," as most of the players are calling to get gear stats back lmfao. You literally said that and like 4 people jumped on you, stop trying to lie to make a point.

[SunGoki]

I think perks aren't that bad, just make more of them available! A small tweak wouldn't hurt either, for example remedy could give 40- 50 health on kill no problem. There could be a perk that gives the user hyper armor for x seconds after exiting OOS.

More variety, that's what I'm asking!

Also, give heavies and hybrids some offensive perks too, being heavy doesn't mean they have to turtle

[CptMatsumaru]

Did you read the negative reviews? They mostly speak of the DC issues, not the perks one.

And on the steam forum, no one is asking to bring back stats. Same on reddit.

but its true. look steamforum. no cry like you little wolf. (VolatileKnight)
And no one can give his opinion here without you attacking them. It's annoying.
Let others express their opinions.

[The_B0G_]

I reviewed my previous verdict on the perks from during the open test and updated some sections:

1. Shields Up

A nice to have perk. Increases survivability which is always good. More beneficial together with Aegis, but not much (18 health shield vs 15)

2. Aegis

Good perk. Shields are granted extraordinary often granted in breach especially due to feats and buffs, revenge and also of course by other perks like Vengeful Barrier or Shields Up. So this is overall a nice perk and a very good pick for breach.

3. Devourer

a meh perk for breach. I only use it if I could not have any better at the moment. You get +15 HP on executions. Well I don't need that at all. In breach you also run a risk to get interrupted by minions and that also transfers now onto other modes as well. Plus if I have the time for a longer execution I just do that and have quite enough health back with those usually. I

4. Endurance

12% stamina reduction is nice on paper, but you would need to unlock all 4 feats first (gain 3% reduction for each level) to get there which depending on how success you play could be a little late. In breach if you're able to unlock your fourth feat early, but useless in all other modes. If you want to make this more viable give a much greater stamina cost reduction in the beginning that is already noticeably from the standard costs

5. Survival Instinct

20% stamina reduction on critical health. One of the horrendiously bad perks. This should be additional damage as you would fight harder to actually to survive. Alternatively this could also be revenge gain and then a legendary or heroic tier perk. Stamina cost reduction however or basically ANYTHING in critical health condition does not help much to survive at all.

6. Headhunter

Ok perk I guess but 16 HP is not really much.

7. Fresh Focus

OOS is now very punishing now unless you have a stamina feat or if you are playing Jian Jun (doesn't matter to him since he can just Sifu Stance himself right to full stamina within mere seconds - hello?) and hence this perk seems to be quite important to get back into action more quickly. For me one of the most outstanding perks that reallly serve a good purpose. Not OP though. OOS is still quickly achieved and often a death sentence.

8. Remedy

Pretty good perk imo. Increases survivability quite a bit by providing you an additional source of healing and does not come with the restrictions of Devourer.

9. Bastion

Very good perk. +10 damage reduction when fighting in a zone is very useful for all zone focused 4v4 and every heavy character in the game. Must pick for those in my opinion.

10. Feline Agility

Couldn't test that one out yet. Has a better value distribution than Endurance so that you possibly profit from the advantages from quite early on. However I don't know how significant a speed up from 4%-10% ingame is. Maybe this should be flat values and not percentages as slow classes would profit much less from it when it's based on their core speed than already faster classes who would gain a much greater boost for every %-point.

11. Vengeful Barrier

I think so far this one is pretty neat. Very nice for anyone who foresees himself fighting in 1vX scenarios and trying to stall time as much as possible. Together with Aegis it provides a health shield of 30. Pretty good I think. Depends however if you are able to get revenge out of a gank situation. Otherwise it might be too seldomly in use to be of worth. So better on tanky characters I guess.

12. Last Stand

In my opinion the most worthless and worst thought through perk. On critical health you gain 20% damage resistance....
Now I wonder, how much health do you have on critical health? Something like... 10? What possible use would a damage reduction have here? You are about to die in one hit. Even on a pretty standard 15 dmg light you would get 12 damage. If we are talking about indeed 10 health then you are DEAD. This perk is absolutely ridiculous. The only scenario I could image it providing a use is when you would gain revenge on your critical status, activate it and have the damage reduction then so that your shield does not go down as fast. That is the ONLY combination and as you can see that is extremely situational due to the fact that we have just normal revenge gain. Another usuage could be in conjunction with Bastion while defending a zone. That should net you 30% dmg reduction on critical health then. That might be interesting to try to on my Shugoki with hard to kill in order to get that fatal demon's embrace in but again you need to be below 25 HP for that to kick in.

Here are some different ideas however to make it more worthwhile in general:
1. activate the damage reduction on low health (2 bars or so?) or make it a little like the feat Hard To Kill
2. provide a significant revenge gain boost to actually use it for revenge and increase your survivability by that for a short period of time

13. Bulk Up

Pretty much the same concept as Headhunter but you get the HP boosts with unlocking your feats (so pretty late game in most modes). 16 HP overall gained is not really much, it is often a legendary tier perk and therefore often you have to sacrifice sth in order to have it in your build. Compared to Aegis not worth the investment if youcan have . It would make sense if you were able to use it together with headhunter (as a tank for example) but apparenlty Bulk Up is for Heavies and Hybrids, Headhunter is for Vanguards. Should be lower tier

14. Rising Dawn

Very good perk in 4v4 modes and especially breach. 75% health upon revive is nothing to sneeze at.

15. Galestorm

Good perk for assassins to get faster out of unfavorable situations after a kill or to get quicker to the next area where they could be of use.

16. Early Reaper

Weird one. First attack after spawn or revive does 20% more damage. I wonder what happens if said attack gets blocked what if you whiff it? Is that buff gone then? Seems totally useless. I understand the idea behind it that once you get revived in the mids of battle you have a buff to turn the tables. However this is extremely questionable and only for just ONE attack. This should AT LEAST be just time limited so that you would gain a 20% dmg increase for 7-10 seconds or so then it would be a very good perk but not like this. Of course it would have to be higher tier then.

17. Crush Them

Similar weird condition as in Early Reaper. But sounds good to me since it would be useful in anti-gank situations in which onces you disposed yourself off one opponent the next one could eat a big hit. Could not try it out myself, but I imagine this is a good pick for anti-gank heroes and very fitting for berserkers. However again, what if the attack whiffs or gets blocked?

18. Radiant Rebound

Ok perk. Let's you jump into action more quickly again due to the 20% movement speed. Surely helpful in breach, pretty awesome in smaller map modes such as tribute.

19. Rapid Refresh

Now this is either a mediocre or a extremely attractive perk. It depends on two conditions: 1. Do you have a character with feats that have an active cooldown and do you use them very often? 2. Is the cooldown reduction stacking or not? Does it apply just one time as a fix reduction or do you speed up the cooldown in general?

I obviously could not try it out myself, so I don't know. However I believe it would work like this: You kill/help to kill an opponent or revive a mate and get overall on all active cooldowns (so you have to have used your feats) a one time cooldown reduction of 5%. Question now does it take the overall basic cooldown time as base value of these 5% or does it take the current time left. If it does the later then you will of gain less reduction when you're half through the cooldown phase than compared to when you just used it shortly before. Interesting perk overall.

20. Supersonic

Interesting for players who would use revenge to get away. Good incentive to promote a playstyle which is more team/overall goal and survival orientated. Pretty useful for assassins, but depending on what tier this perk is questionable whether or not this gets easily integrated in builds.

21. Clever Tactics

Just like Warden's Conqueror. Useful in general sure, but I wonder why you would create a perk just like a feat that those classes who could select that feat would have. In my opinion this one needs to go. Leave the fast capturing for classes and people who choose that feat.


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I wrote this before but it should be mentioned here again that absolutely no work was done on the perks since the open test. Everything remained the same. I think overall there is too little variety within the perks, Some heroes, like for example Aramusha's case did not get an individual set but the whole defensive table. We could use more in total and we could use to access to some more per hero otherwise there are too less build options and hence incentives to develop/try out for sth different. I have so far only one single build on those heroes I play.

The transition to the perk system was terrible and extremely poorly made. Also, at the current stage the effort to create and try a new build is horrifiying as you need to access a maybe endless grinding process in search for the right pieces. Blowing out steel and crates more than ever before.
Those who thought this stuff up must be out of their mind or just painfully imcompetent. If this is not getting fixed there is no hope for this system at all.

Good write up, I never experimented much with them yet, this helps.

[IlMacgyverIl]

The problem with keeping the stamina perk is that it would clearly be the go to for EVERYONE. I think they've given the game some build diversity in that aspect. You'll get your tanky heavies, deadly assassins, balanced hybrids, and well rounded vangaurds.

I do remember a lot of people asking for a Dominion without gear stats, and that's kinda what they've done. However, they did not just leave us high and dry with nothing at all. If they took away gear stats, and left us with nothing... I would've been even more disappointed.

I think everyone just needs time to get acclimated to the new system, and give it a chance. They did say that we have 21 perks INITIALLY, so that may mean a stamina perk for other classes isn't out of the question.

[Dajarmarathe]

I need to say this. If I get banned for my thoughts then so be it. First the perk system is now in the stage of taking it's first steps where the test was it starting on it's crawl. I really hope it gets the chance to run. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the feedback they got in the survey's was telling them that the new perk system was easier to understand over the old system.

The old system was you started out at a baseline of zero then depending upon how you wanted to build it the stat would go up past zero to a positive and below zero getting a negative. I.e. either giving bonuses or penalties to stats that you thought would help your play style. Unless you are a number cruncher these stats were very confusing and hard to figure out which ones were better for you. Also these stats were only for the four versus four matches tribute, dominion and death match they had no bearing in the duels, brawls, ranked matches or carousel of death special events. So basically right now you are fighting with the same gear you would have in a duel match but in the four vs four match they give you an added perk.

As far as the changeover from one system to the other. People act as if they stripped them of their item due to a stat being gone they worked for and a new perk they didn't want placed on it. Understandable I had the same thing happen to me. But just because you didn't get the perk you wanted in no way did they downgrade your gear. If you had a lvl thirty item low and behold it was still a lvl thirty item with all the pips maxed out on it just as it was on the old system. Meaning you didn't loose any progression in said item it just didn't have the perk you might have chosen.

Now all gear sets are at a base line of zero and when you place pips into adding towards a perk you need to accumulate six hundred points between all your gear pieces to unlock that perk. Very streamlined user friendly and easier for new players to understand what your points are actually doing. This also makes the playing field more balanced and now it's not about what stat you had put bonuses into is based on your actual skill and knowledge of how to play your character against another.

Maybe placing a gear perk conversion where using steel and salvage to change a perk you don't like to another perk you do like might be the way to go. With the two perk items this would be a little trickier where you would either be able to change out one perk for the half score or combine it into the other perk to double that score. Putting say a price tag of ten thousand steel and a thousand salvage on it. Honestly I would think that price would be to high for only being able to choose the perk for one character and one item only but certain people who have only one character might find this acceptable to get the perk they want. Rather then farming drops and taking chances on scavenge crates.

I've also seen a lot of posting about the regen stamina stat where people are actually describing exhaustion recovery. If you read the fine print on the stamina regen stat it had no bearing on your recharge if you've already hit the point of exhaustion. Meaning that if your screen is black and white it's to late your stamina is rising just as slow as everyone else unless you put points into exhaustion recovery too. So basically what you should have been doing is taking yourself to the brink and stopping let your stamina regen then press the attack. Also the stat on regen reduction cost the bonus even at full would give you a heavy hit or two maybe a few light hits it wasn't that huge of a bonus. Again very confusing.

I hear terms like the law bringer can't tank anymore. Well first the law bringer isn't a tank and second this game really doesn't have any tanks. The tank role in most games are the guys absorbing the damage not the high damage output or dps class characters. Which if you were going to try to place those terms into this game the heavies (Conquer, Warlord, Shogoki, and Jin June) would be your tanks. The law bringer is a hybrid yes he looks cool in his heavy armor and big polearm but he is in no way a tank. If you look at his description he is a hybrid and a counter specialist. Meaning he's not a heavy attacker he's a guy who parries and waits for his opening to strike. Trying to run in and feint all the time and burning up your stamina is not the best tactic for him. There is a tactic called turtling where you stand there parry and block and wait for your attack and I'm pretty sure this was what he was designed for.

The games not broken the system is not broken. It's players trying to put round pegs into square holes and then jumping up and down screaming that it is broken and confusing people is the real problem. Also because they were depending on stats to give them an advantage and not skill now they find themselves not being as good of a player as they actually believed they were. Hopefully the new system will help with these issues and fix some of the problems.

I'm going to stop now because this has all be said before and I know it's starting to sound like the teacher on Charlie Brown with the wa wa. wa wa. Yes mam wa wa wa wa wa. If you took the time to read this I do appreciate it and thank you. I'm not asking you to take my word as gospel but I do ask that you do the research and make an informed decision for yourself rather then blindly following the words of others. I've said my piece and won't post in this thread anymore.

Have Fun

[VolatileKnight]

I need to say this. If I get banned for my thoughts then so be it. First the perk system is now in the stage of taking it's first steps where the test was it starting on it's crawl. I really hope it gets the chance to run. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the feedback they got in the survey's was telling them that the new perk system was easier to understand over the old system.

The old system was you started out at a baseline of zero then depending upon how you wanted to build it the stat would go up past zero to a positive and below zero getting a negative. I.e. either giving bonuses or penalties to stats that you thought would help your play style. Unless you are a number cruncher these stats were very confusing and hard to figure out which ones were better for you. Also these stats were only for the four versus four matches tribute, dominion and death match they had no bearing in the duels, brawls, ranked matches or carousel of death special events. So basically right now you are fighting with the same gear you would have in a duel match but in the four vs four match they give you an added perk.

As far as the changeover from one system to the other. People act as if they stripped them of their item due to a stat being gone they worked for and a new perk they didn't want placed on it. Understandable I had the same thing happen to me. But just because you didn't get the perk you wanted in no way did they downgrade your gear. If you had a lvl thirty item low and behold it was still a lvl thirty item with all the pips maxed out on it just as it was on the old system. Meaning you didn't loose any progression in said item it just didn't have the perk you might have chosen.

Now all gear sets are at a base line of zero and when you place pips into adding towards a perk you need to accumulate six hundred points between all your gear pieces to unlock that perk. Very streamlined user friendly and easier for new players to understand what your points are actually doing. This also makes the playing field more balanced and now it's not about what stat you had put bonuses into is based on your actual skill and knowledge of how to play your character against another.

Maybe placing a gear perk conversion where using steel and salvage to change a perk you don't like to another perk you do like might be the way to go. With the two perk items this would be a little trickier where you would either be able to change out one perk for the half score or combine it into the other perk to double that score. Putting say a price tag of ten thousand steel and a thousand salvage on it. Honestly I would think that price would be to high for only being able to choose the perk for one character and one item only but certain people who have only one character might find this acceptable to get the perk they want. Rather then farming drops and taking chances on scavenge crates.

I've also seen a lot of posting about the regen stamina stat where people are actually describing exhaustion recovery. If you read the fine print on the stamina regen stat it had no bearing on your recharge if you've already hit the point of exhaustion. Meaning that if your screen is black and white it's to late your stamina is rising just as slow as everyone else unless you put points into exhaustion recovery too. So basically what you should have been doing is taking yourself to the brink and stopping let your stamina regen then press the attack. Also the stat on regen reduction cost the bonus even at full would give you a heavy hit or two maybe a few light hits it wasn't that huge of a bonus. Again very confusing.

I hear terms like the law bringer can't tank anymore. Well first the law bringer isn't a tank and second this game really doesn't have any tanks. The tank role in most games are the guys absorbing the damage not the high damage output or dps class characters. Which if you were going to try to place those terms into this game the heavies (Conquer, Warlord, Shogoki, and Jin June) would be your tanks. The law bringer is a hybrid yes he looks cool in his heavy armor and big polearm but he is in no way a tank. If you look at his description he is a hybrid and a counter specialist. Meaning he's not a heavy attacker he's a guy who parries and waits for his opening to strike. Trying to run in and feint all the time and burning up your stamina is not the best tactic for him. There is a tactic called turtling where you stand there parry and block and wait for your attack and I'm pretty sure this was what he was designed for.

The games not broken the system is not broken. It's players trying to put round pegs into square holes and then jumping up and down screaming that it is broken and confusing people is the real problem. Also because they were depending on stats to give them an advantage and not skill now they find themselves not being as good of a player as they actually believed they were. Hopefully the new system will help with these issues and fix some of the problems.

I'm going to stop now because this has all be said before and I know it's starting to sound like the teacher on Charlie Brown with the wa wa. wa wa. Yes mam wa wa wa wa wa. If you took the time to read this I do appreciate it and thank you. I'm not asking you to take my word as gospel but I do ask that you do the research and make an informed decision for yourself rather then blindly following the words of others. I've said my piece and won't post in this thread anymore.

Have Fun

Yeah I can see your points of view, I share a couple of them, not all though. Where I would differ, is saying that they did make our gear next to useless. Now that's not necessarily to say that the system is broken, but the transition to said system was handled poorly I think. And it was, it upset a lot of long-standing supporters of this game. And it should, we've all worked hard.

My main gripe is that the perks currently don't give any real noticeable boosts in my opinion. You don't notice a movement speed perk that you have to unlock by killing a player later on in the match. It feels like it's not there, and it doesn't seem to fit with the theme of the game. Locking it behind certain parameters was an odd decision, and one that I don't agree with the devs on.

With previous boosts, although 3 extra damage or so on the weapon doesn't make a massive difference, but it was enough that you could tell it was there, but only just. It added flavor and individuality I feel, something that allowed players to express their version of their perfect warrior.

If they more or less kept the system and changed the perks themselves and made them more of a baseline boost like stats were, I'd be all for it. Sure, some numbers would definitely need tweaking and consultation with the community, but I currently feel like they had a good idea and just executed it poorly.

I don't feel like anyone would have batted an eye if they kept the perks system. but changed the whole pre-requisite to unlocking said stat mid-match but also changed the perks themselves, no one would have batted an eye. I don't feel like boosts similar to stats should be locked behind pre-requisites, it makes the game feel clunky to me.

Also I appreciate you taking the time to so thoroughly demonstrate your opinion, we need more posts like this in For Honor at the moment.

[NHLGoldenKnight]

New system is a joke. Everyone is getting smart now but you didn't lose anything didn't you? As some others already explained, we wouldn't even be playing this game if not for unique gear stat customization. So now, after wasting more than a year and hundreds of hours in game, and spending at least 150k, it is ok for that to be wasted for nothing?

They couldn't just offer Realistic Dominion with no gear stats and same reward as regular Dominion? And then measure activity to determine what players play the most?
That would be fair way to do it.

Also, everyone is ignoring balance issues. There are winner and losers of this new perk system, and we all know who they are. Of course, at least 70% players prefer to chesse with their assasins, so they actually prefer it to be like this. Some others such as Raiders, Kensei or Centurion probably like this as well. Everyone else though, is a loser after perk update. There is zero incentive to play as a slower, heavier hero, unless you are playing as JJ. Game is slowed down for many, and staring contest can begin. Those who once sacrificed defense for stamina managment so ghey can lead the charge and protect their group are now reduced to support units, sitting in your zone and praying that if someone comes, it is not an assasin.

I am glad to be leaving as soon as RDR2 is out so I can ldave this mess behind. Not just that I was robbed as player by Ubisoft, but balancing issues, connectivity issues and overall most toxic player base I have ever experienced are reasons to skip this and play something else. No game ever had me wasted 1000 or more hours of my life for nothing to show for.

[VolatileKnight]

New system is a joke. Everyone is getting smart now but you didn't lose anything didn't you? As some others already explained, we wouldn't even be playing this game if not for unique gear stat customization. So now, after wasting more than a year and hundreds of hours in game, and spending at least 150k, it is ok for that to be wasted for nothing?

They couldn't just offer Realistic Dominion with no gear stats and same reward as regular Dominion? And then measure activity to determine what players play the most?
That would be fair way to do it.

Also, everyone is ignoring balance issues. There are winner and losers of this new perk system, and we all know who they are. Of course, at least 70% players prefer to chesse with their assasins, so they actually prefer it to be like this. Some others such as Raiders, Kensei or Centurion probably like this as well. Everyone else though, is a loser after perk update. There is zero incentive to play as a slower, heavier hero, unless you are playing as JJ. Game is slowed down for many, and staring contest can begin. Those who once sacrificed defense for stamina managment so ghey can lead the charge and protect their group are now reduced to support units, sitting in your zone and praying that if someone comes, it is not an assasin.

I am glad to be leaving as soon as RDR2 is out so I can ldave this mess behind. Not just that I was robbed as player by Ubisoft, but balancing issues, connectivity issues and overall most toxic player base I have ever experienced are reasons to skip this and play something else. No game ever had me wasted 1000 or more hours of my life for nothing to show for.

Yeah, numbers are starting to speak for themselves. Steam reviews have tipped more towards negative reviews recently, aside from today. That hasn't happened since release.

[Saratoya29]

Tipped toward negative reviews because of DC issues, not perks issue. And mostly from free owner of the game from this summer.