Senior Member
Thematically it makes sense for berzerker because he's supposed to be a madman that literally doesn't care about being hurt.Originally Posted by HazelrahFirefly Go to original post
Shugoki I see as a sumo wrestler. His passive armor fits him better thematically. Because it's sort of like "poise." Where he resolves himself to take a hit and not move. But repeated blows would effect him. If we gave Goki armor on everything it would just make fighting him more annoying than it already is unless you just wait to parry him. Because he'd just constantly trade for Gb's or headbutts. Which gives him one shot potential.
In my head goki's main changes would be:
~Removal of passive HA.
~Demon's embrace now does standard damage and health regen. Is faster/less recovery so a whiff isn't as detremental. Whiffing no longer does damage to him.
~Landing DE gives passive armor back. Works like old passive HA. once it's removed you'd have to get another DE to get it back.
~all opening attacks on goki do reduced damage. combo attacks do normal damage.
~heavies have HA.
~demon charge? the running unblockable. Knocks people down if they're OOS.
~gains some soft feint into head butt. Probably from heavy.
~better combos.
~faster attacks.
~better recovery on whiffed attacks.
It's a general idea. But it addresses a fair bit of his issues whilst making the obnoxious parts of his kit (in terms of fighting against) more palletable. Goki is not a good hero. But I personally hate fighting goki in duel. Because I don't turtle up against goki and parry everything he lets fly. Meaning when I attack I risk trading which at best means I only lose 3/4ths of my stamina. At worst for a gb. and every GB gets me closer to a wall or ledge. For the almost certain Splat for DE or ledged. I can't attempt to GB him everytime his armor's up because they just attack on reaction to it and hit me with headbutt. Fast double lights don't work because the second one is parried due to the passive HA preventing his flinch. This happens even with things like orochi's double top light.
And soft feint into GB doesn't work because they can take the hit in a trade and do what they want to me. And going for the trade is an attack which means the soft feint into GB won't work. unless they tried to trade with a heavy for whatever reason. These issues are not issues in high level play because there they just turtle up and react parry goki all day. But he's still unfun to fight up there from what i've heard. Which is why I make the suggestions I did.
Senior Member
If you want to make him an equal to berserker he needs active HA on lights aswell as passive. If you want him equal to orochi he needs a spam stopper like a one inch punch bleed zone similar to pks but much more bleed damage like val. If you want to keep shug mains happy he has to keep his passive. I like the idea of him chaining around GB or his headbutt. Get rid of all his penalties, cheese one shot, and slow attack speeds..make them medium.
He needs a way of warning light spammers like the one inch punch. Making an assassin bleed to death easily if they light spam now forced a counter attacker to actually counter attack and causes shugoki to go oos quickly...so it's a glass cannon maneuver. Shugoki can't keep up with light spam and assasins have to Gage shugs stamina while spamming or risk bleeding to death which makes the clock tic for both.
Senior Member
I'm happy with Shugoki keeping his passive Hyper Armour but I would like the following issues addressed:Originally Posted by Ubiflowessence Go to original post
CHARGING HEAVY ATTACK:
1) As others have said, speed up Shugoki's recovery after performing an unblockable heavy attack so he can't get guard-broken by a downed opponent.
2) As others have said, sometimes the Charging Heavy Attack only does chip damage when it connects which is around 17dmg. Why is this? Please fix this.
HYPER ARMOUR:
3) Remove the extra 25% damage he takes when he loses his Hyper Armour. That way retaining it is no longer a necessity.
4) Allow him to keep his Hyper Armour if he misses with a Demon's Embrace. No character should pay a penalty for missing with a move.
DEMON'S EMBRACE:
5) Remove the damage the Shugoki takes when he misses with Demon's Embrace. Again, no character should pay a penalty for missing with a move.
6) Speed buff the start-up of Shugoki's Heavy Attack Cancel by 100-300ms. This soft-feint is too telegraphed and, therefore, virtually useless.
7) If the Demon's Embrace is no longer going to ignore certain defenses such as zone attacks, revenge, hyper armour, etc. then find other ways to make it easier to connect with the move.
8) Give the Shugoki the option to cancel his Demon's Embrace on start-up with both the cancel button and a dodge.
CHAIN ATTACKS:
9) Give the Shugoki more attack chains or an infinite chain where Shugoki players can attack with heavy and light attacks at their discretion.
10) Allow Shugoki to perform a Headbutt during at any time chain attacks. Headbutts will end the chain.
11) Allow Shugoki to perform a Charging Heavy Attack at any time during chain attacks. Unblockable heavies will end the chain.
12) Allow Shugoki to perform a Heavy Attack Cancel from any heavy attack during chain attacks.
CHARGE OF THE ONI:
13) Allow Charge Of The Oni to wallsplat Shugoki's opponents.
If you have the time, feel free to read my full list of suggestions for Shugoki's rework. See the link below:
Shugoki Buff / Rework Suggestions - The Shorter Version
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...horter-Version
Reddit link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/co...s_the_shorter/
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Senior Member
They should look at his softfeint. If it is meant to stay it needs to be polished so people can actually use it. Needs to be available as an option out of the second part of the zone attack tooOriginally Posted by Ubiflowessence Go to original post
- he needs an OOS pressure tool. His design currently revolves around maintaining his hyper armor so he has a couple of moves to push opponents off to get it back. He should however still be able to run some offense on opponents at the very least when they are OOS.
- make his zone attack always start from the opposite side direction you have your guard in. If you're top choose it randomly. If last is not possible put the starting attack of the zone at least on his left. His running attack already comes from his right. The least you could do is give thim a similar option like warden when enganging or "chasing"an opponent
- adjust his follow- up heavy damage. It is way lower than his normal heavies. Let the charged heavy also be accessed from a follow-up heavy or even the zone attack.
- remove increased dmg after hyper armor removal, or at least add reduced damage while having hyper armor
- add new chain-combos, L-L, H-L,
- give him some openers
- if you by any chance touch his hyper armor you need to compensate for that and make his guardbreak game stronger so that he can still work his wallsplat game.
- grant him further anti-gank tools. He needs a tool to push a mop back. He can currently only try to do that with a charged heavy while being in revenge and needs to target switch in order to have it not parried. Needless to say you need to get there first and furthermore you need opponents that continue their aggressive assault. Defensive ones can just back off and there goes your chance to turn the tables. I think a mop sweep parry punish could help here (an attack with a great arch after a parry that hits multiple opponents and pushes them back - doesn't have to deal much damages but has to cover enough space to effectively hit people)
- grant his charge of the oni wallsplat properties (for maybe a light hit or at most a heavy). Give it better push properties when an opponent is hit head on.
- oh and please (!) make him faster the longer he runs! Shugoki and highlander both cannot catch a shinobi or shaman who carry a totem in tribute!
- While you're at it look at his sound design and some of his hit animations. His weapon does not sound like its supposed weight and destructiveness at all. Sounds more like hollow wood not a bone crushing heavy piece of wood&metal covered with spikes and other nasty stuff. Most of his initial execution don't really convey the feel of a heavy hit as well.
Junior Member
Shugokis tracking on his demom embrace is completely awful, take away the one hit capability, make it give him stamina back(like shamans bite). Also, have a different kind of grab, where you pick the opponent up, and throw him, mostly used to take stamina away, either no damage or the same as glads toestab
Member
He needs all 4 of the following chains (rather than the two he has) :
L-L
L-H
H-L
H-H
Each Light finisher automatically cause a headbutt and it doesn't cost any stamina. This automatically hits.
Each Heavy finisher is unblockable.
Each second attack should be slighter faster than the first.
All his attacks should have a damage boost, more so on his second attack in a chain (also including zone and charged heavy). Blocked attacks do not interrupt his chains.
His charged heavy always has HA and must be dodged or parried. No more cheeky interruptions. A slight speed increase of 200ms.
His headbutt can now ledge. It can also knock down OOS opponents. It no longer automatically hits but hits neutrally so must be dodged - This will discourage a single Light hit to headbutt spam that he does now.
His zone attack has unblockable on the second hit. Reverse the directions in which he swings. This gives him a chance to perhaps catch fleeing enemies.
A slight sprint speed increase.
No more extra damage taken upon losing his HA. Also a successfully countered GB no longer removes his armour.
Charge of the Oni now can knock over OOS opponents.
Demon Ball now inflicts additional damage upon the target hitting an object. It also can cause a wall splat or a knockdown if the target is OOS.
DE no longer instant kills when on critical.
It now scales based on health currently lost, gains stamina back, doesn't cost any health on a miss and has slightly better tracking (just enough to still hit enemies who may move slightly but very little).
For every full bar of health lost, the Shugoki heals half a bar back (and the equivalent in stamina) while inflicting the same damage to the opponent (in health only).
If the Shugoki manages to get a parry, he can now Demon Ball an opponent instead of his normal response.
Heavies can now be feinted into a GB as well as a DE (including chained attacks).
Lights can now be feinted into a headbutt (including chained attacks).
As a side note, having all of his attacks faster would be cool but I dont feel its too fitting for him. I prefer the "hard hitting tank" idea.
Junior Member
alright you be the judge of what happened
went on a Ranked duel with goki and ended up with 100% win(heartbeat went crazy at the end)
I rocket-propelled from unranked to Diamond 3(on ps4).
it was simple, wait for them to attack, hit with Heavy then headbutt.
or throw them to wall and DE.
however as soon as they put with me with Diamond, let's just say it didn't end well( difficulty parrying light attacks).
still i got 1 single Issue with goki, he got the worst Fient in game for his DE
Senior Member
Soldier of Dawn had also some interesting write-up a while ago, I saw today:
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...horter-Version
maybe the devs want to consider some of those suggestions too. They seem pretty neat and also very close or overlapping to my own
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