Tier One Mode Too Hard? | Forums

[Virtual-Chris]

What baffles me is why so many people prefer to play without stealth in a series that's traditionally always been about tactically and patiently planning your infil and exfil, while considerably outnumbered, using stealth.

It's as if their move to a sandbox design suddenly made everyone want to abandon traditional ghost play style for an overt style, yet you also have all these people wanting the path plotting for your squad that older GR games had.

In my case, it's not that I prefer to play without stealth... I always start stealthy, but when you are playing without hud and tagged enemies, you will have surprises and things will go sideways. Dealing with that, is far more fun and entertaining than a perfectly flawless stealth execution - unless you are instantly killed every time.

Anyone can sit 200m outside a base and sync shot the entire enemy presence from the drone without ever firing a shot yourself thanks to the AI team's magical ability to shoot through solid objects... that makes Tier 1 a trivial but boring exercise. Or you can use rebels and mortar fire, or even just snipe from 300m out. There's lots of ways to play Tier mode without ever putting yourself in harms way, which becomes increasingly critical as you Tier up. However, there are those of us, who play without hud that creates a lot more unpredictability, that leads to unforeseen situations, that require firefights to resolve. That's fun - but not in Tier mode!

[Kean_1]

Wouldn't you agree that it's actually Wildlands' strength that, given that you don't play tier mode, that you can choose yourself whether you go loud or not? That you can choose your own approach?

I don't think that the playstyle of previous games counts as an argument. Wildlands allows for the player to choose, that's what Ubi used to sell their product and it is why I purchased it. Having said that, with the exception of Vegas 2 and Siege I have not played any other Tom Clancy games. So perhaps that might explain why I look at things differently.

I agree and that's what the vision for GRW was all about. The ability to approach objectives how you like. ......from afar, in & out using total stealth, rush, coordinated assault, etc. or a mixture of any of these tactics. My issue was that they departed from that vision with this mode. ....that vision that made the core gameplay of GRW really fun IMO.

In the regular game, enemies would absorb more damage once alerted but it was nothing that I would consider outrageous. TTK was still lethal which was another reason I liked the game. On the other hand, in Tier Mode alerted enemies essentially become bullet sponges as you get closer to T1. .....unless of course you use the RPG-like, magic leveling system for your weapons but even then there are only a couple choices that stand out above all (and essentially make the rest look like nerf guns).

In the core game the weapons generally feel more balanced to me and I will switch up my choice depending on the need or preference at the time. I had a lot of fun using a variety of different weapons and acc configurations in the vanilla game whereas in Tier Mode I essentially just stuck with the same ones all the way through.

As much as I don't like the idea of permadeath in this game or how some of the new features were implemented, I have to say that Ghost Mode is what I consider a better approach to making the game more challenging while maintaining that formula that makes the original game feel so good to me.

I was a big fan of the early R6 games and I like some of the earlier GR titles. .....but it was the vision the devs had with GRW, the customization, lethality, freedom of choice, etc. that made this game such a favorite of mine.

[Frag_Maniac]

Wouldn't you agree that it's actually Wildlands' strength that, given that you don't play tier mode, that you can choose yourself whether you go loud or not? That you can choose your own approach?

I don't think that the playstyle of previous games counts as an argument. Wildlands allows for the player to choose, that's what Ubi used to sell their product and it is why I purchased it. Having said that, with the exception of Vegas 2 and Siege I have not played any other Tom Clancy games. So perhaps that might explain why I look at things differently.

While I agree it's better to have more options in play style, and that the huge open world they created is more immersive, I don't agree that it at all helps the arguments of those whom claim Tier One mode is too hard when not using stealth, or even when intending to use stealth but alerts are raised. That is entirely my point. So I DO think the style of the previous titles validates my argument, mainly because it's always been a franchise built around ghost ops, which are not only intended to be covert, but explicitly stated in the dialog of this title to be as low profile as possible.

Given that, it should be expected that if you don't use stealth on harder modes, it's going to be much more difficult. Players taking issue with that should not play on Tier One mode, rather than expecting those whom accept stealth need be used to have consistent success at it, have to play a dumbed down version of Tier One mode purely out of their stubbornness to adapt to ghost style play in a GHOST Recon game. They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want more than just options, but to pretty much convert a ghost style game into another dime a dozen open combat shooter. This is only directed at those whom refuse to use ghost play style on Tier One mode, then complain that Tier One needs to be made easier, as I know many others are OK with just not playing on Tier One, rather than expecting it to be dumbed down.

So while you can indeed play with any style, I think it's disingenuous given the fact players know the history of the franchise, to expect it to play just as smoothly without stealth, especially on Tier One mode. There's been TONS of "Tier One Mode is Too Hard" threads, and pretty much all of them have people insisting it be made easier, by players whom don't even want to use stealth. I for one applaud Ubi for maintaining Tier One mode is supposed to be an elite challenge, but I also know full well it's not as hard as many say to get through, even on Tier Level 1, and even if you have to resort to blind fire from cover using choke points. I have video proof of it.

[Kean_1]

Anyone can sit 200m outside a base and sync shot the entire enemy presence from the drone without ever firing a shot yourself thanks to the AI team's magical ability to shoot through solid objects... that makes Tier 1 a trivial but boring exercise. Or you can use rebels and mortar fire, or even just snipe from 300m out. There's lots of ways to play Tier mode without ever putting yourself in harms way, which becomes increasingly critical as you Tier up. However, there are those of us, who play without hud that creates a lot more unpredictability, that leads to unforeseen situations, that require firefights to resolve. That's fun - but not in Tier mode!

I couldn't have said it better myself.

In my case, it's not a matter of wanting something easier and certainly not a case of wanting it dumbed down as I prefer just the opposite. .....a challenge with more depth using other existing mechanics in the game to create a more challenging scenario.

I played on Extreme difficulty since the betas. Back in the closed beta I think they even called it "Ghost" difficulty before changing it to "Extreme". I also preferred no markers, limited HUD, etc.

I can't say it enough times but it's not a matter of Tier One being difficult but simply how they made it more difficult. I always thought it would have been a better mode focusing on tweaking a wider range of mechanics / elements of the gameplay instead of essentially just buffing the enemy AIs abilities, health, etc.

I get that some actually do want Tier One to be "easier" but that's simply not the case with me or some others in this thread. I played Tier Mode and got to T1 just because I was only 4 tiers away once I obtained the "Bad News" rifle. I figured, what the hell. ....but once I got there I turned it off and never had a desire to turn it back on again.

I'm glad some find the mode fun. I'm not trying to spoil that. .....just sharing what I would have preferred Tier One to be instead.

[Frag_Maniac]

In my case, it's not that I prefer to play without stealth... I always start stealthy, but when you are playing without hud and tagged enemies, you will have surprises and things will go sideways. Dealing with that, is far more fun and entertaining than a perfectly flawless stealth execution - unless you are instantly killed every time.

Anyone can sit 200m outside a base and sync shot the entire enemy presence from the drone without ever firing a shot yourself thanks to the AI team's magical ability to shoot through solid objects... that makes Tier 1 a trivial but boring exercise. Or you can use rebels and mortar fire, or even just snipe from 300m out. There's lots of ways to play Tier mode without ever putting yourself in harms way, which becomes increasingly critical as you Tier up. However, there are those of us, who play without hud that creates a lot more unpredictability, that leads to unforeseen situations, that require firefights to resolve. That's fun - but not in Tier mode!

It's not always as boring, simple and easy as you make it sound using drone sync shots, and there are MANY places where the drone is jammed. Nor do I think most looking for an added challenge like Tier One use Rebels a lot. Most in fact seem to be put off by Rebels in general.

I also don't tend to think a 4 man squad when tasked with infiltrating bases with dozens of highly trained cartel and military troops are going to just say, "What the hell, let's forget the drone and snipe shots and live dangerously today". The fact is you can still get that level of realism AND excitement without using nothing but sync shots, and I don't see getting downed or even dying now and then because of it a legit reason to cry foul on how Tier One is designed. It's primary flaw was the grind in getting to Tier Level 1, and that's been fixed.

Ghost style play is more about timing and precision than unnecessary risk of life. It's easy to think that way just playing a game, but if you were on such a squad, you'd realize how ridiculous it is. That said, I've played all but 3 of the missions on Tier Level 1, and although it is of course more difficult with overt combat, it's not impossible at all like many make it sound.

I also think it's kind of a sickness these days to look at a game like this and expect it to play like CoD or GTA. Many are craving over the top unnecessary action more than a practical approach. To most true stealth players, I think the reward is in how few you can kill, not how many. I think were Ubi to instead of adjusting Tier One further, just offer individual squad commands and more abilities for the squad, like shooting alarm boxes, disabling generators, doing silent kills, etc, the stealth would suddenly look a LOT more interesting to most. Until they try something like that, I think it's too soon to be blaming Tier One design for the stealth being boring.

[jlaw12204]

I honestly thought tier mode was too hard at first but i hope the difficulty does not change. It makes it more immersive. In real life one shot can kill and honestly after playing a while you'll learn the strategy. I held off a 4 alarm unidad alert for over 10 minutes yesterday just using a combination of building cover. windows and rebel support. Its possible just open up your mind

[Lunatic LK47]

I honestly thought tier mode was too hard at first but i hope the difficulty does not change. It makes it more immersive. In real life one shot can kill and honestly after playing a while you'll learn the strategy. I held off a 4 alarm unidad alert for over 10 minutes yesterday just using a combination of building cover. windows and rebel support. Its possible just open up your mind

Problem is it is NOT immersive if someone hosing with an Uzi has the precision of a sniper. I also find it NOT immersive if someone randomly tanks entire magazines of military-grade weaponry just because they happen to be "on alert." Tier Mode completely goes against the supposed realism of Tom Clancy.

[MikeWeeks]

I honestly thought tier mode was too hard at first but i hope the difficulty does not change. It makes it more immersive. In real life one shot can kill and honestly after playing a while you'll learn the strategy. I held off a 4 alarm unidad alert for over 10 minutes yesterday just using a combination of building cover. windows and rebel support. Its possible just open up your mind

"over 10 minutes"? Alright, great. Then what happened?

[jlaw12204]

"over 10 minutes"? Alright, great. Then what happened?

I stopped firing at them, waited until there was a gap between them respawning and made a run for it until the alert gets called off.
I'll be honest it does seem that its easier to escape alerts recently. Idk if it has already been patched but if you're hiding in buildings it seems they will lose you if you change buildings. I was in a small village that started out with santa blanca and rebels already there.
I can do something like this again and record it to show what happened.

[MikeWeeks]

No need to record. I was just wondering if anything different took place regarding how to get an unidad alert called off. You left the area, which is how the game is coded.