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  1. #1

    the house is not balanced

    At least in terms of PVP, the house is not balanced. Compared to the game's other prominent weapon, the LWM4, the house has the same RPM, almost identical per bullet damage (not accounting for weapon damage bonus on gloves), faster reload time, less recoil, and critical hit chance instead of enemy armor damage. Card counter is also better than any other damage talent one could possibly roll in the free slot of an M4. The higher accuracy, better optimal range, and +25% headshot damage multiplier on an M4 is not nearly enough to compensate for the aforementioned advantages of the house. Every other SMG has been an instant deconstruct since this weapon was released into the game.

    I don't expect this to be adjusted since D2 is releasing in the coming months, I just wanted to say that I hope balancing is handled better in D2. This was done very poorly imo.
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  2. #2
    Corrupt.be's Avatar Senior Member
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    It never was...

    It deals about as much damage as an LVOA/LW M4 that's headshotting... but while body shotting. Now with the striker nerf, the need for that LVOA/LW M4 accuracy is gone so we might as well all run a House in PvP.
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  3. #3
    's Avatar Senior Member
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    Been saying that, my guy.

    1.27 scale from firearms
    850 RPM

    M4 is 1.24
    850 RPM

    You throw on competent and unforgiving and you got yourself an M4 with Card Counter, or at least very close to it. Not to mention how much of a laser it is.

    The House is the sub machine gun version of the M4.
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  4. #4
    A lot of things are unbalanced in this game big surprise... I'm sure my recent suggestions all got ignored to (didn't get any replies anyway) but a big part of the problem I find is how some mods are just straight up better than every other choice. There is no reason whatsoever to use a Heavy Spring for example, ever. Even Quick Release is dubious at best unless you're trying to abuse Intense for some reason.

    The House is simply the prime example of an item that's been allowed to run unchecked with no real competition. And yes, Striker worked with it as well but I'd argue the Showstopper was a much deadlier option pre-nerf and at least gave it some competition (or if you had good aim an M4 at range). Now it doesn't have any at all... MAYBE Big Al but don't see that often, and even then it's frankly unacceptable to have less than a handful of alternatives.

    The bonus should be brought down to 15%. It'd still be stronger than Responsive, but not quite as oppressive as it is now.

    EDIT: I'd actually like to see the Bullfrog buffed as well in response to give AR users an alternative to it. I mean it's basically what it's meant to be more or less, an SMG in AR form but the tradeoff on that gun is far worse - half a magazine vs not being able to use any accuracy or stability mods and for a weaker bonus wtf... and only a slightly higher RoF and an inconsequential headshot increase (BF is so hard to control you're gonna have a hard time landing those headshots so the extra damage doesn't matter).


    I still think at least some if not all Headshot modifiers should be changed back to multiplicative to give crit a run for its money and give SMGs some competition.
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  5. #5
    NERF ALL THE THINGS!!!
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  6. #6
    RushLoongHammer's Avatar Senior Member
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    The House has never been balanced.

    I remember the Card Counter talent was actually stronger in the PTS before it was released in the live game.
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  7. #7
    Of course.....this is how it's been from the beginning. One or two guns were always far and away better than the others. Amazing how many guns are in this game that are utter garbage. There are some LMGs that I have never even shot except once and disassembled them instantly ever since. Never understood why great guns in the past (mp7/mp5) got nerfed instead of all the other guns receiving a buff to become competative. The vector use to be awesome. Now it is beyond useless.

    In PVP at the moment you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage if you are using anything other than a house or an M4. This should never occur in any game. Buff others to make them relevant and give some diversity.
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  8. #8
    's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Frank_Rizzo_ Go to original post
    Of course.....this is how it's been from the beginning. One or two guns were always far and away better than the others. Amazing how many guns are in this game that are utter garbage. There are some LMGs that I have never even shot except once and disassembled them instantly ever since. Never understood why great guns in the past (mp7/mp5) got nerfed instead of all the other guns receiving a buff to become competative. The vector use to be awesome. Now it is beyond useless.

    In PVP at the moment you are putting yourself at a huge disadvantage if you are using anything other than a house or an M4. This should never occur in any game. Buff others to make them relevant and give some diversity.
    Let's see, the weapon metas I remember were:

    M4 meta
    Vector / AUG Sentry meta
    There was an MP7 meta in there somewhere
    M4/ MP5
    M4 / House

    The other weapons aren't garbage. Actually, there's a lot more balance among them if you were to remove the House and M4 from the equation, and imo, don't need a buff. The problem is the M4 and House. They are both unbalanced compared to their classmates and they have no flaws.

    Take a look at what happened when they changed Striker. They made other builds viable without even touching the other gear sets. The same could have been done if they touched the House and M4 and they had the opportunity to do so. All it takes is changing their firearm scale so that they follow the same logic as the Bullfrog / Big Al / UMP / T821 or nerfing their max magazine size, or in other words, changing a number that doesn't require an entire football team to do.

    At this point, just gotta hope they don't do mess up the weapon balancing in Division 2. That's currently the biggest thing I have my arms folded on. Can't hug them on that just yet.
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  9. #9
    I think some combination of Blizzard and Capcom's ideology is best. To clarify;

    Blizzard: Buff other stuff first, then dial back problem outliers afterwards rather than jumping for the nerf button immediately and upsetting everyone. Also it's OK for some things to be a little OP because it keeps things from getting stagnant.

    Capcom: Make everything OP and it will sort itself out.


    Predator is a good example of this and I recently made an argument for changing it to a unique debuff that cannot be manually erased. It's potency in PvP should be reduced to compensate for that, but in general if you want to survive a Pred user you should be stacking EDR and Bleed Resist like a madman, rather than abusing BS mechanics like the Immunizer, Energy Bars, Adrenaline etc. you name it there's a bunch of stuff in the game that will instantly stop and/or outright prevent the bleed. Making it a unique status effect also should ideally remove the problem of other bleeds preventing it from applying.

    I mean seriously how stupid is it that you can counter a 6-piece classified power by simply popping a medkit?! I really hope the devs have taken a hard look at what they got wrong in this game so it's not repeated in the sequel. We need a lot more variety in viable loadouts and tactics desperately. enough with the sweeping balance passes that drastically screw up everything, that's one of the things that drove me away from Destiny. In an ideal situation there should be a multitude of viable playstyles with some being stronger against some and weaker against others so that a proper meta can be established as opposed to everyone just abusing whatever the currently ridiculous exploit is.

    Also WTF why is there no Mini-gun specialization in the sequel? We get a high single target damage weapon (50 cal) and then 2 AoE weapons? Hopefully in a future DLC...
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  10. #10
    Originally Posted by Malacite Go to original post
    I think some combination of Blizzard and Capcom's ideology is best. To clarify;

    Blizzard: Buff other stuff first, then dial back problem outliers afterwards rather than jumping for the nerf button immediately and upsetting everyone. Also it's OK for some things to be a little OP because it keeps things from getting stagnant.

    Capcom: Make everything OP and it will sort itself out.


    Predator is a good example of this and I recently made an argument for changing it to a unique debuff that cannot be manually erased. It's potency in PvP should be reduced to compensate for that, but in general if you want to survive a Pred user you should be stacking EDR and Bleed Resist like a madman, rather than abusing BS mechanics like the Immunizer, Energy Bars, Adrenaline etc. you name it there's a bunch of stuff in the game that will instantly stop and/or outright prevent the bleed. Making it a unique status effect also should ideally remove the problem of other bleeds preventing it from applying.

    I mean seriously how stupid is it that you can counter a 6-piece classified power by simply popping a medkit?! I really hope the devs have taken a hard look at what they got wrong in this game so it's not repeated in the sequel. We need a lot more variety in viable loadouts and tactics desperately. enough with the sweeping balance passes that drastically screw up everything, that's one of the things that drove me away from Destiny. In an ideal situation there should be a multitude of viable playstyles with some being stronger against some and weaker against others so that a proper meta can be established as opposed to everyone just abusing whatever the currently ridiculous azexploit is.

    Also WTF why is there no Mini-gun specialization in the sequel? We get a high single target damage weapon (50 cal) and then 2 AoE weapons? Hopefully in a future DLC...
    Pred is cancer, its counters are good enough. Defending pred shows the kind of player you are. Unskilled and lazy. You call the current counters ******** mechanics, again this shows how lazy you are and how easy you expect your kills. "Git gud" really does apply to players like you.
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