State of Balance S6 - Frustration Level 9000 | Forums

[Charmzzz]

So, what I have been saying on the forums for 2 months now became proven by Data:

- Conq is still the Duel-King with a 60+% Winrate overall. Some Matchups are close to 70%. This is the 3rd Season in a row and NOTHING was done about it...
- Kensei rising to the Top as I predicted. Too strong overall (ridiculous in Dom together with LB and Raider, as I said). Nothing is done about it...
- PK "Rework": was complete sh*t and is now shown by the Data

Now let's go through this Recap:

Side Dodge Normalization: We adjusted the side dodge recovery of all heroes to be 600ms – some heroes now have faster recovery while some have slower recovery.

What does that mean? Did you or did you NOT normalize Side Dodge recoveries? That sentence is contrary in its meaning.

Switch Stance bug on all the Heroes who do not have Reflex Guard: Patch 1.25 introduced a bug where Non-Assassin Heroes were able to gain an instant guard in different direction instead of having the normal 100ms Switch Stance delay, when doing multiple Stance Changes in a row. This means that all Heroes who are not Assassins were able to use this bug to defend more successfully than usual. This issue had an impact on the meta-game during Season 6 – as we saw that this 100ms difference meant that the fastest attacks, that we want to be unreactable, where now reactable.

Nice that you publicly confirm this. I have been saying this on the forums so many times, yet people did not believe me...

During Season 5, the top 5 1v1 heroes for were Conqueror (60%), Peacekeeper (57%), Kensei (56%), Berserker (54%) and Shaman (53%).
During Season 6, we see that while Conqueror (60%), Kensei (54%) and Shaman (52%) are generally unchanged.
During Season 6, we also see that Berserker (49%) and Peacekeeper (41%) have both dropped significantly.

So you admit that you did NOTHING about the obviously too strong heroes and nerfed the hell out of "the bleed team" (but not Shaman, right?)... The incompetence of analyzing Data and doing the right things is shown on every statistic and statement, don't you see that yourself!?

Conqueror
Conqueror still extremely strong in 1v1. The ability to do a forward dodge and Shield Bash or Guard Break can impose good pressure across the cast. However – what’s interesting here is that while the Conqueror is strong for that reason – when you look at the rest of the top list, they mostly want to counter-attack. The suspicion is that the other top characters (especially Centurion, Lawbringer, Shugoki) would beat Conquerors by countering, and not by initiating combat. This is a large reason for the hesitancy to nerf Conqueror’s Shield Bash – while it’s a difficult pressure tool to deal with, we do need pressuring attacks that force reactions, and control the pace of combat. Instead of nerfing the strong tools, we prefer to continue to improve the weak tools.

Uhm, what!? You admit that Conq Bash is a strong tool (it ignores core mechanic rules btw...) but hesitate to nerf it? WHY the f*ck??? Your other 3 "top characters", namely Shugo / LB / Cent, DO NOT BEAT Conq in Winrate. Did you even look at the Data? Conq beats them easily with 61 (Shugo and Cent) or even 68 (vs LB!!!) %. This whole paragraph is plainly ridiculous and pathetic.

Lawbringer appears to be performing above expectations, and at 51% Win Rate is above the curve.

So that is your smoke bomb to not Rework LB? Again, ridiculous and pathetic.

Peacekeeper
Peacekeeper received a double whammy in Season 6 with both the Switch Stance issue as well as damage nerfs to her Heavy attacks. While her performance is lower than expected, we are waiting to see how the fix to the Switch Stance bug will affect her before we act on her. As her performance was too high previously, and we are convinced that the Switch Stance bug directly hurt all the Assassins, we first want to see the effects of fixing the Switch Stance bug (in Patch 1.27), and only afterwards decide what we need to do, to ensure that she doesn’t end up being overtuned again.

You left out: dodge recovery nerf, light damage nerf, Zone damage nerf, guys you freaking nerfed her ON EVERYTHING. And if we consider that PK had a 58% Winrate overall, and Conq now has 60%, AND NOTHING IS DONE TO CONQ (see above...), this is getting less and less understandable...

Gladiator
Gladiator was 45% Win Rate in Season 5, and is 46% in Season 6. This is a very interesting case, as we’re aware that the Zone Attack is really good, and we believe the key to Gladiator’s power. While the stamina cost is really high (as compared to Conqueror’s Shield Bash), the Win Rate doesn’t seem to reflect the power of this move. It’s surprising to see this character consistently perform under expectations.

Yeah, shows how fast you are with balancing. 3 Seasons the Glad is sh*t now in Duel and Dom. Nothing was done and this statement shows that you have no plans to do anything. Ridiculous, again.

When we look at the dataset above, we see Shaman is the only Assassin in the top half of the Win Rate, and Shaman isn’t famous for her “light spam” at any level of play.

But you decided to nerf PK and Nobushi because they were too strong together with the Shaman. Both dropped to being almost unplayable, but hey, Shaman still doing fine. Nice balance decisions Bros...

Generally, the overall order of heroes ended up more or less the same as in Season 5.

Shows how little you understand your own game. Kensei, Raider and LB still rule in Dominion. When some other tactic comes up (Bleed Team) -> you nerf it into oblivion. But nothing is done about the everlasting Meta of Stampede / Impale / Bomb. Kensei has too wide arcs and deals too much damage, we keep telling you about these things for 2 seasons now...

Peacekeeper
Peacekeeper dropped in Win Rate and Pick Rate significantly. We will keep an eye out for her as things evolve – but we don’t want to buff her before seeing the impacts of the fix to the Switch Stance bug (which is fixed in Patch 1.27), so that we can all best understand that fix’s impact in isolation. So it’s important to see the result of the fix first, then determine what buff if any she needs.

Wow, you need two Seasons to admit that PK is sh*t now, and another one to maybe give her some love, yet Conq is the undefeated King in Duels since his Rework and Kensei is in Dom, but nothing is done. My Frustration Level rises over 9000....

Season 6 had some significant effects on the meta-game: Peacekeeper may have flipped from too-strong to too-weak

Peacekeeper will be the closest-watched hero – as we want to see where she ends in the first half of Season 7 before taking action. It seems likely a buff will be necessary.

At least you admit that you overnerfed her, but we told you before the Rework. Maybe you should listen to the community SOMETIMES...

[CptMatsumaru]

"- Conq is still the Duel-King with a 60+% Winrate overall." True. Only with Ara i got a chance vs conq.

Kensei - meh, no really. ya, the new moveset is great, but in duell no the greatest.

My biggest Problem is the Lawbringer. that endless combo attacks my stamina, no chance with kensei etc.

Rest of all Heros are ok.

Edit: Maybe more dodge-range for Nobushi, and hyperarmor for valk like Ara(charge/jump attack)

[Charmzzz]

"- Conq is still the Duel-King with a 60+% Winrate overall." True. Only with Ara i got a chance vs conq.

Kensei - meh, no really. ya, the new moveset is great, but in duell no the greatest.

My biggest Problem is the Lawbringer. that endless combo attacks my stamina, no chance with kensei etc.

Rest of all Heros are ok.

Edit: Maybe more dodge-range for Nobushi, and hyperarmor for valk like Ara(charge/jump attack)

- Kensei is 2nd with 54% Winrate in Duel. Not the greatest because that is Conq, sure, but still he is too strong compared to others.
- Kensei Dom Winrate tops the Charts with 54%. That is surely a too high impact in 4v4.
- Lawbringer is mediocre in Duel, the Dev's Smoke Bomb should be ignored.
- Rest of Heroes are ok? Nobushi, PK and Gladiator are sh*t in Duel, PK and Glad are sh*t in Dom. They are not "ok".

[CptMatsumaru]

Kensei is 2nd with 54% Winrate in Duel.


Kensei is one of the most played heroes. That may explain the winrate.
My experience with the Kensei is based on my own gameplay. Kensei has long been my main, but he does not look good against the new Warden or Lawbringer.

And besides, the data is only measured by the top 5% players.

[Charmzzz]

Kensei is 2nd with 54% Winrate in Duel.


Kensei is one of the most played heroes. That may explain the winrate.
My experience with the Kensei is based on my own gameplay. Kensei has long been my main, but he does not look good against the new Warden or Lawbringer.

And besides, the data is only measured by the top 5% players.

Uhm, you know that statistics work differently than "most picked = higher winrate"? Orochi and Warden got picked more frequently than Kensei, yet they are at 50 / 52% Winrate. Kensei is stronger than most of the roster due to several reasons which I could elaborate now, but I won't because you can read it up in plenty of threads here.

Below is a Matrix of 1v1 Duel matches played by the Top 2.5% of For Honor players on PC and Console combined during Season 6, according to our skill rating.

Top 2.5% of players for Duel, Top 4% for Dom. These players know how to play and they pick mostly Meta Heroes. I am one of the Top 4% in Dom, and I can even make PK work there, but that does not correlate to overall Winrates.

Ignoring statistics means you put your feelings over proven Data. Please, stop commenting with your feelings as arguments when I gave hard, statistical facts as evidence.

[Siegfried-Z]

I'm really surprised Kensei goes 2nd in Duel ! He is not so strong in 1v1 in my 27 rep of experience with him, while he is a monster in 4v4 for sure.

But looking at the data, his win rate hasn't change from S5 : 54%

54% is not too strong, it is just that others goes down arround 49 and 51%.

I feel you for PK, for sure we were all expecting it.. they say they gonna buff her back after S7 stats if it still shows the same for her.. that's hard but just be patient :/

Pk is not my main but i am rep 11 with and enjoy playing her sometimes and would like to do so more often so hurry for a buff too ^^

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Thankfully I installed flotation devices to my Conqueror's shield so he could survive this inundation of tears.

[PINKmattconnor]

what i don't understand is the fact that they don't want nerf bash cuz LB SHUGOKI can won by turtling, but still, on season 5 they start by say :reduce /remove the turtle meta.

In addition, they say that now, with switch guard stance bug fixed, assassins are OK?...no, zerk and orochi aren't OK, if you have 144 fps maybe you can block even PARRY those 400ms but under that FPS is only prediction with a magic sphere.

about pk: i like this rework is how assasins should be imo :hard to use, low dmg but many mix up and not unblockable or hyperarmor opening.

She has, BTW a very big problem:she has high cost of stamina for the heavies mixup that deal soo low dmg compared to the rest of the cast and this is bad .

[CptMatsumaru]

are you mad, charmz?

chill.
Whether 2.5% in Duel or 4% in Dom or 5%. That does not matter.

You're so upset because it affects your PK.
You throw around statistics that are not even complete.
Let's do the following.
Did you count the leavers? No.
Disconnects? No.
How often do players leave a fight if they only see your rep or hero.
And yes. The more Kensei there are, the higher the winrate. Why:
More Kenseis also mean more good players among the Kenseis.
More Kenseis < more good players < higher winrate.

PK and Gladi are not bad heroes.
The only one who needs help right now is Nobushi.

It is not possible that all heroes are equally strong. It's not that all heroes have the same chance.

Otherwise we'll make it easy: Give all heroes the same Moveset and then the problem is solved.

You play Kensei and have a problem with the Warden?
Change Hero. Play Ara or Valk vs. Warden. Make fun.

What you are trying is not possible. I understand the frustration of the conquerors. But if he is not, it will be someone else.

[Charmzzz]

what i don't understand is the fact that they don't want nerf bash cuz LB SHUGOKI can won by turtling, but still, on season 5 they start by say :reduce /remove the turtle meta.

In addition, they say that now, with switch guard stance bug fixed, assassins are OK?...no, zerk and orochi aren't OK, if you have 144 fps maybe you can block even PARRY those 400ms but under that FPS is only prediction with a magic sphere.
.

LB, Cent and Shugo did not even win against Conq btw, look at the Data and what I wrote about it. The Dev's completely misinterpreted the Statistics... LB, Cent and Shugo went up because PK and Zerker went down. Versus Conq they had the same bad matchup as anybody else except Shinobi (because he can fight out of range of the broken SB).

They stated, and I quoted them in my opening post, that 400ms Lights are meant to be unreactable! Did you even read my post?
The Guard Stance Switch Bug affected Assassins negatively because their 400ms Lights could be blocked on reaction, not prediction which is what they are meant to be.

are you mad, charmz?

chill.
Whether 2.5% in Duel or 4% in Dom or 5%. That does not matter.

You're so upset because it affects your PK.
You throw around statistics that are not even complete.
Let's do the following.
Did you count the leavers? No.
Disconnects? No.
How often do players leave a fight if they only see your rep or hero.
And yes. The more Kensei there are, the higher the winrate. Why:
More Kenseis also mean more good players among the Kenseis.
More Kenseis < more good players < higher winrate.

PK and Gladi are not bad heroes.
The only one who needs help right now is Nobushi.

I'm mad at the Dev's yes. They made alot of poor decisions even though we told them how bad they are, and it is clearly shown in the Data now.

Where do I throw around incomplete Statistics? I take the Statistics directly from their State of Balance Post: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en...season-6-recap

The rest of your post is just nonsense. Counting leavers? Why? Leavers on certain Characters will even out, because, well, you know, Statistics... Same with disconnects. Take 10000 Games, it will even out for sure.
More Kenseis also mean more bad players among Kenseis. You show again how little you understand about how Statistics work.

PK and Glad are the worst Heroes concerning overall Winrates now. Fact. Nobushi at least is mediocre in Dominion.