Ghost mode permadeath suggestion | Forums

[GankhisKhan]

Want my suggestion to fix it?

For individuals who have not hit level 30/tiered mode. When you die, anything you did not get 100% destabilized will be reset to 0% progress. Players can also lose levels when they die. Anything they unlocked will get the skill points refunded, but not the supplies. This will make it so individuals have to keep going back to gather supplies/side missions to unlock skills again. Everything you have completed (like our favorite Yuri and Polita mission.. you know who you are.. the people who have died and had to replay this gem) is still destabilized. If individuals wish to reset their full progress they can!

For individuals at tiered mode; leveling up is daunting. Especially in the extreme gameplay mode where I have heard reports of AIs spawning and headshotting the squad within seconds. So for them, if they die they lose a full tier level. Allow individuals to actually grind, but death actually holds some loss; and obviously at higher level tier the losses become greater, but not as great as "Hey you just sunk in 30+ hours. Now you got to re-do everything you did." Tiered mode on or off, levels are always lost. This prevents players from toggling it off as they're dying and falling into the previous death punishment of losing any partial progress in the story.

I think this would allow people to clear the story in 'permadeath mode' without worrying about the bugs, and if it happens they can progress through; but it does have punishments. And individuals who want to climb tiered can still be punished for their deaths.

Permadeath is a great punishment, but I think it is extreme in a game where death is so easily found. (Especially since higher difficulty on tiered is guarantee death without exploiting things)



Backstory/Reasoning
So, I'm not a hardcore gamer. The game is pretty easy, and I can get through it all.
My issue is permadeath. Not that it's a bad mechanic (I actually love it.) It's the problem that you have to replay so many missions over and over again if you die to a bug which really discourages people.
Take my for example. I was just in Koani doing a plane mission.
All is going fine, dodged a few missiles (2 at a time) landed the plane.. then when I exit the plane, the plane exploded. And my character flew into the sky, and fell to the ground.
Reason for death was that I fell.

Now I completed about 60% of the game before I got there, and then it's like "Oh hey. We havea nice curveball bug for you. Enjoy your 9 hours gameplay gone."
This isn't the first time I was killed by bugs or really bizarre encounters. Such as, I killed everyone, no longer hunted.. then rebels hopped in their car.. and their car flipped around and flying everywhere (front of car in the ground and car is warping like a tornado) suddenly the car stops spazzing out and the car had enough momentum to drive super fast and hit my whole squad. (Rip.) I play alone, so AI failed. (Or you know.. you fall onto a rooftop and the AI has no idea how to get there. Apparently a 3 foot fall let's you die, but a 8 foot fall from a tower is something you can roll.)


Mind you I love permadeath. I love the punishment involved.. except when it started to dawn on me. I started reading reddit threads: "Oh just do this over and over again to grind exp in tiered."... "Oh yeah, to prevent from getting destroyed just get a missile helicopter and camp this spawn. Otherwise you'll die."
So it seems a lot of people are resorting to glitching the game or exploiting AIs to get experience and they're not actually enjoying the game but rather grinding it.

Some games have permadeath, such as Diablo 3.. but Diablo 3 is an ARPG the whole purpose is to grind. Permadeath mode is after you unlock everything, and there is no reason to do the story.. but rather the game IS a grind. You can just grind right off the bat without doing the story to 'unlock grinding'. Permadeath mode in Wildlands to be similar would be that everything is destablizied and you're just leveling up tiered mode on permadeath.

X-com (short game.. 100% strategy.. and the 'permadeath' is not if you die in a mission and there is plenty of methods to prevent it.
Runescape (MMORPG) it's meant for people to enjoy the grind.. but like Diablo 3; has no 'story' to it to worry about 'permadeath and replaying everything over again in nausea'

In reality, a lot of these permadeath games actually are grind games that drop you in the grind right away. (Don't starve; diablo; runescape) and the games that have a story (X-com) generally have a huge warning and many methods to not die.


tl;dr
Permadeath should be adjusted to allow progression. For example: 100% destablizied stays destabalized unless the player chooses to reset from scratch. Tiered mode death causes you to lose a full level (toggled or not.) This prevents individuals who want to exploit losing a level by toggling it off before death. Death in the game makes you lose a level; losing skills (refunded skill points but not the supplies needed to unlock). This allows for sufficient punishment.

[redsept]

Here's a list why the general story isn't needed as much with permadeath, as you create your own story. (The effect of death should be user controlled, so it could be from losing your ghost to losing just 1 level every time you die.)


1) The story is created with your actions & Death becomes the story

No quick-loading, no re-pawning, no checkpoints. When you die, you die. There is no going back, and you lose your ghost. Maybe he was level 4, maybe 24. How he died becomes relevant again. Were you pinned in heavy fire by the bridge, with no good cover if you move away from the car that is already burning. You try to make a run for it, it's now or never! And you get cut down by a LMG, lose your ghost and promise yourself you'll never use that stupid strategy again.

You learn, you adapt, you strategize more (vs. the checkpoint/respawn system). You become better because you're more motivated. No quick-loading backwards. What you do really matters, every single time! Dying matters again, as you have invested skill points in your ghost. (If you fear frustration, don't use permadeath.)


2) Retrieving the guns is a return to the crime scene

You see the body of your dead ghost who was unable to escape the last bullet. You see the place he died, and remember how he really looked like. Yol see the place again where you made your wrong choices. But he's dead now so he's not getting back up again, so you have to get the gunzz.

This becomes a mini-mission every time you die. The body is guarded by 10 cartel members, so first you'll have to take them out, wherever the body is located. It can be anywhere, so the place is totally random. Only after you get to the body you get to your old guns and gear. (If you die on this mission, the original ghost remains intact with your guns, so you'll never lose them.)


3) Life and deaths matter again

Remembering the ghosts who died with a memorial screen including places of deaths, stats of killed enemies etc., photos and maybe even videos of the sad moment how you lost your ghost, that would be support the story of how the campaign has really proceeded. Every death is counted for, nobody goes forgotten. And since you can customize each character, they're really unique gosts. Every ghost is precious when they become skilled. That's why the tension and excitement would be higher than without permadeath. (Again, if you fear frustration and don't want your ghost to die, don't use permadeath.)


4) The cheat-mode is finally turned off

When you play a racing game with a rewind button (like Forza Horizon etc.), you can rewind back hundreds of meters and try again. I call that cheating in racing if you can do re-takes. In Wildlands, you always rewind back if you die. Wildlands is like Forza but with the rewind button forced on! That would make Forza boring, every time you drive off the road, the game automatically rewinds you back on the road. That is what Wildlands does, it automatically rewinds you back on the road again every time you mess up. It doesn't even allow you to mess up.


5) No cutscenes or videos, you are the story

The cutscenes in Wildlands are a bit over the top for many, and it sometimes feels more like watching a really poor episode of CSI or some other crappy cop drama. The acting isn't par with the rest of the game, IMHO, nor is it par with Clancy legacy. The story is nice, the acting is not. And it takes you away from the game world, you suddenly can't control your actions at all. So dump the acting, the briefings can be done with text files and/or radio. Now your actions become the story, not some pre-made cutscenes with only one outcome. (If you like the story, it will still be there.)


R6) Permadeath honors the original Clancy R6 games

Don't be a fool or you'll get your ghost killed, for good.

[GankhisKhan]

I think you missed a big point.
I've already completed the story. I'm not looking to replay the story, but for the challenge.
Permadeath is fun. But at the same time, it has lost it's charm due to me dying to absurd bugs.
Resulting in me re-doing the same missions on repeat for hours. I literally binge watched movies while playing. I have not died to AI, nor have I even been at risk.
my strategy is really tame and boring. Even if it takes me a long time to clear a mission (slow creep up stealth kill everyone).
>Repeat
The deaths have occured from very random bugs. (Getting out of a helicopter and then for no reason it explodes and I teleport into the air and fall to the ground and die. And the AI just stands there watching me bleed out.)

So redoing the same missions over and over again ebcause very tiring and I get very bored doing it. There is no challenge anymore. Maybe at tiered mode, but that's a plethora of other issues where I have witnessed people get killed nearly instantly at higher tier levels.

You mainly focused on the story aspect, I focused on the completion aspect. The game already 'saves' what you have already completed towards the rewards. But for the higher tier rewards it becomes this grind where you try to exploit the games AI to climb. No longer a "story" based game, no longer a "story" based gameplay. It's just grinding levels in the most efficient manner. If you play it differently, then thats great for you. Turn that permadeath on. But i feel like if people want to progress for rewards; and not deal with the randomness of bugs, there should be that option. Because again, the game isn't hard. I haven't really died to AIs shooting me or a helicopter gunning me down etc. (Plan out your skills. x2 revive + resistance + increase damage to vechicles) I can gun down a helicopter in 1-2 clips of my AR.

[redsept]

I've already completed the story. I'm not looking to replay the story, but for the challenge.
Permadeath is fun. But at the same time, it has lost it's charm due to me dying to absurd bugs.

I'm after the best gameplay experience, I was just saying that the story is created here with your own actions, that's all. But permadeath or some kind of penalty for dying is needed in Wildlands, and like I said before, the level of punishment upon death should be selectable by the player. I'm for losing the ghost, you were suggesting losing 1 level.

You mainly focused on the story aspect, I focused on the completion aspect.

I'm all for the gameplay and the mood of the game. No permadeath makes the game boring, you can't die. Ghost Mode is more fun, but it is flawed in many ways. There is a better way, and that is to let players choose the penalty for death. If there is none, one could run-and-gun through the whole game.

Because again, the game isn't hard. I haven't really died to AIs shooting me or a helicopter gunning me down etc. (Plan out your skills. x2 revive + resistance + increase damage to vechicles) I can gun down a helicopter in 1-2 clips of my AR.

The game does become easy once your ghost is beyond level 20-30. He becomes a super-soldier and he can't die. Put in permadeath and now he's vulnerable, especially on extreme difficulty.