Ill do my best to make this short but detail. In this thread I’d like to start a discussion on all the characters that will be made obsolete by the 4 new characters and not only them, but the DLC and reworked characters that were actually improved successfully.

Orochi:
Everyone’s most hated “light spam” character (who may be losing that title to Valk), but is he really a light spammer? Or is it just that he doesn’t actually have anything else in his arsenal thats viable? Let’s talk about how the character is suppose to be played. With Orochi your objective should be to start a combo get to the finisher and then you can dash to the side immediately to do a side light, but more effectively you can dash back for a riptide or dash back for a storm rush. The problem is, that you can be GB’d out of riptide very easily because its started by a dash now same goes for storm rush. Another problem is riptide is amount the easiest attacks in the game to parry or deflect and storm rush is easily stopped by simply hitting the Orochi out of it. So my question is with not bash openers, no soft feints and no unblockables what exactly is Orochi suppose to do besides throw lights with a heavy thrown in at the end to help finish the finishing attack? As a Orochi main myself i do throw heavies but its only A because I’m trying not to be a **** and just light spam and B because if I’m fighting a high lvl player which is usually the case i know that majority of the time if the first 2 lights land the 3rd will not. As a orochi main fighting at high lvl ive found its usually best to just fight of my base skill in the game which is blocking, parrying and hard feints (which only work if the opponent is trying to parry you). Deflects are risky moves but really Orochi’s most viable and most difficult move to pull off and now the new characters will just put him further back in the runnings because honestly, if youre playing high lvl players the first light simply isnt hard to block.
Shinobi:
Shinobi is a character that is hated by the community in 1v1’s because his kit incentives him to play you at a distance and pick your shots. What in shinobi’s Kit really incentives him to fight close? He has ridiculously slow heavies for someone who’s suppose to be a ninja including his hard feint of it. He only has a light light and heavy heavy combo which is a disgrace to ninja of anytime, and he can also be GB’d out of his double dash which makes it extremely risky at close range. My question is is this really the type of play style that is one good for the game as whole And is it good enough for what the S tier characters in the game can do now and soon? If you can block shinobi’s lights which again the first 500ms light is not hard for high lvl players to block there’s not a whole lot he can do and his kick isnt hard to dodge. Compare to what the new characters can do and what a Shinobi should be able to do, is he really ready for Marching Fire?
Lawbringer:
I dont think i need to explain to much on this character. His top light is his only attack that isnt parry bait and if he’s not block shoving he has almost no way to open up a opponent since he has amoung the slowest and most telegraphed bash in the game. For this character I would offer more of suggestions since there’s so little to say, which is make his bash chargeable and cancelable giving him a guaranteed side heavy of full charged bash but the bashes distance does not change if its fully charged but if its side stepped it does track and have hyper armor, and also I’d make the pole arm guaranteed off wall bounce and and light parry which will take increased stamina from a opponent and also guaranteed the top unblockable. The just a light light, heavy light light, light heavy light combo and i think he’ll be good. Also his regular bash speed should be increased.
Shugoki:
Personally I hate this guy and i dont want him to succeed in anything, but to be fair ill throw him a bone. Shugoki is kinda a wild card character because one mistake could lead to him literally taking half of your life. He can GB you out of your combo unless its a combo that guarantees 2 lights, he can light and head butt you out of any combo or mix up youre doing as long as he isnt hit twice and his light parry heavy punish is substantial. But then when he’s fighting someone whose turtling things become much harder. His lights from any direction are parry bait and i think one of the dumber things about the character is that after a headbutt he pretty much just looks at you like a *******. That head butt should be the start of a few option in a combo the he can get started while the opponent is dazed. I dont play the character so i cant give to great insight but I’d imagine a unblockable thats soft fient able into a GB or a light, maybe a ungoing combo that allows him to swing his weapon around but has infinite hyper armor like berserker (which that ******* doesn’t even deserve for as fast as his feints are) and are delay-able. But maybe so shugoki mains have better ideas, I’m not sure I’d say they should speed up his lights give the stature of the character and his weapon.
Raider:
Raider is a powerful character that I honestly do think needs much because he’s so powerful. He can kill my Orochi in 3 light parries which for the rep 40 plus raiders i normally run into in 1v1’s doesn’t seem to be difficult at all lol. But at he same time although he may need deserve a guaranteed 40 damage heavy off GB he deserves a alternative to using half his stamina on a area attack, something like shugoki has. And he’s also the only Vanguard without a bash opener which i dont think is particularly fair. With a viable opener, and a option that doesn’t take half his stamina for guaranteed heavy damage after a GB, i think that will be enough for him to be able to stand with at least the A tier heros.
Warlord:
Even with Warlords lack of combo options he’s still a decent character in my opinion because of his headbutt and heavy trades together with him having a large health pool. But i think if they opened up his combo abilities to light heavy, light light heavy, heavy light heavy and so fort. Also adding the shield jab as a option after a successful light attack thats perhaps cancel able i think that would put him in the runnings for A to S tier.
Aramusha:
In all honestly i think Aramusha was disrespected more then any character on his release and its sad.He was given an infinite combo but his direction are locked to certain positions which is weird since berserkers arent even tho berserker is faster and more dangerous with his because once he’s started not only can he go in any direction he wants but the only way to stop him is to parry him. In his description he’s called a soft feinter or something like that but he can only soft feint on a heavy finisher and only in 2 direction which is not the case for character release right next to him which means shamans soft fient is not only faster and harder to deal with but its also more versatile cause it can go in all 3 directions and it can be used off of any heavy and her zone. His all block is fair in its timing i guess but his unblockable heavy is parry bait and his kick is useless the opponent hits a wall but shaman can get a guaranteed dash heavy on GB throw, and centurion can a guaranteed pounce heavy off of a full charge punch coming off a full charge heavy. Or maybe more relative Conq can get a guaranteed heavy punish or his all block that he can hold and walk with but you can block arumusha’s all block top heavy which is weaker. He just seems to get the short end of the stick on a lot lol. And again like orochi, his success is based on him being able to land a light attack which for some reason seem way easier for me personally to parry vs Orochi lights. I’m not convinced Aramusha is close enough to the other high tier characters to be able to compete at high lvls like the new characters can.

This list is a list of the characters that i think are to weak to be viable against the S and high tier character and ways to fix them. I did give any suggestion for Orochi not because i dont have any but because I’m a Orochi main on PS4 and it would of made the thread waaaaay longer. Also I’d like to add that 400ms anything should be taken out of the game for consoles sake. But I’m curious what the community think about this list, the reasons i gave for the character on the list and the suggestions on how to fix them...