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  1. #1
    's Avatar Senior Member
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    Please Massive, no Deadeye clone, no Nomad clone, or any form of Shock.

    Please abstain from creating cheap gameplay in Division 2.
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  2. #2
    LepantoESP's Avatar Senior Member
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    You know, it's absolutely not the gist of your post, but reading it I just remembered my AB build with the REAL Caduceus and boy... Am I ready to start farming fun stuff again as soon as TD2 ships...

    I'm certain Massive will try to deliver variety and some complexity to the game and various builds will be possible. In the end, as it's always the case, some builds will emerge as better than others but in my experience, post 1.4 a LOT of builds were viable. So here's hoping there will be many fun builds to try again.
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  3. #3
    You're making the assumption that there won't be another OP set that will dominate PvP. PvP in a loot based game is the problem, not the sets. With the focus on range, and the general lack of toughness just prepare yourself for a one shot sniper meta of some kind. It's going to happen, just a matter of what weapon and gear it takes. Real PvP requires, clear threat identification, meticulously balanced damage output (weapons / items), and carefully designed maps to control the pace of the engagements. The Division has none of that...
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  4. #4
    echolecter's Avatar Senior Member
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    I can also see a problem with PVP in the new game when it focuses to much on having specific skills in the end. But them again, if you are sniper hiding inside a building or cover that can be destroyed by the demolition skills you are toast. Or you can get killed by a stealthy (meaning invisible) survivor using his crossbow the problem is solved. And if this is not the case, then yes everyone will be a sniper. Since only then you can have some huge benefits, being the long range and damage of marksman riffles. Good thing about assault riffles is that they hit much harder in current game and you can't see that far ahead anyway. So maybe having sniper skills turns out the be a very bad choice in the end. Who knows...

    As for builds, when they put in as much sets, talents, skills and mods as they did in current game I can assure you there will never be some sort of balance. Simply to many parameters that can alter the overall outcome of a specific build. They just can't get all builds to end up at the same sum of overall strength in toughness, firepower or skill level. It will be like it is now, all builds great for PVE and only one for PVP which ever that might be considering the new style in which players will fight others.
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  5. #5
    agentCoats's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by echolecter Go to original post
    I can also see a problem with PVP in the new game when it focuses to much on having specific skills in the end. But them again, if you are sniper hiding inside a building or cover that can be destroyed by the demolition skills you are toast. Or you can get killed by a stealthy (meaning invisible) survivor using his crossbow the problem is solved. And if this is not the case, then yes everyone will be a sniper. Since only then you can have some huge benefits, being the long range and damage of marksman riffles. Good thing about assault riffles is that they hit much harder in current game and you can't see that far ahead anyway. So maybe having sniper skills turns out the be a very bad choice in the end. Who knows...

    As for builds, when they put in as much sets, talents, skills and mods as they did in current game I can assure you there will never be some sort of balance. Simply to many parameters that can alter the overall outcome of a specific build. They just can't get all builds to end up at the same sum of overall strength in toughness, firepower or skill level. It will be like it is now, all builds great for PVE and only one for PVP which ever that might be considering the new style in which players will fight others.
    The issue with this sort of thing is realism or simulation of realism. Do you have any idea the sort of variables it takes to prepare a shot from long distance? Or the time and patience to do so? At least if the sniper wants to remain undetected. Do you have any reason to believe these will be in TD2?

    Its the same issue with automatic weapons being constantly fired at full auto in a dirty environment, with no chance of a misfire or weapon jam.

    These sorts of "touches" would balance gunplay alot imo but I cant see it ever happening...... it would take too much fun out from the run and gun crowd. The irony being they would have more time to chew on their pretzels if they gameplay was slowed down a little. ^^
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  6. #6
    agentCoats's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by Merphee Go to original post
    Please abstain from creating cheap gameplay in Division 2.
    No Deadeye? No Shock turrets? Hmm..... you know if ppl actually made balanced builds from their gear sets the cheese factor in gameplay would be alot less. I dont have an issue with a glass cannon.... if infact they are as much glass as they are cannon. Or no issue with shock turrets/wpns..... if I dont put in some resistance to my build or dont use supp. station quite at the right time. Seems to me the shock turrets were more of an issue with unequal encounters. 3 or 4 shock turrets in one group is joke.

    Again.... it comes down to a design issue. There are four characters in a group...... all of them running the same meta. Why not limit gearsets to 1 player per group and skills to 1 gearset per group? So players would go solo and just loosely group up in the dz..... great let them. At least that way they would not have all those ults as well. ^^ And if players want to play a different gear set, then change with someone else or find another group.
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  7. #7
    RushLoongHammer's Avatar Senior Member
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    In terms of PvP
    I don't want to see gearsets that if you have either have the wrong gearset equipped to counter an enemy or the wrong skills equipped, you don't have a chance.
    I don't want to see probability % to activate talent stuff. More deterministic and player activated talents.
    I don't want to see 1 hit builds or just very fast kill builds. No fun when you cant react. It's the part about Destiny's PvP I don't like.
    I don't want to see rooting effects if it means your likely death

    I want to see more information of how I died. A name and weapon is good but we needs more information when you die. Sometimes I don't know how I died and it makes no sense.
    I want to see how was the damage dealt and where on your body it was dealt during the battle when you died. This will give the player an insight on what could look like a suspect death.
    I want to see an image of the player who killed you at the instant they shot the killing bullet showing their location and their angle of attack on you.
    I want to see far less useless gear and weapons than Div1; more viable weapons, skills, and builds.
    I want to see less of a class based gear. For me in PvP Gearsets were alright, but the Classifieds went to far into classes.
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  8. #8
    teado25's Avatar Senior Member
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    I completely agree about the gearset idea, would love for a team to have to have a diverse range of gearsets, no meta should ever be so that you all need to run the same gearset. Also agree with RushLoongHammer about either a killcam or more information when you die. Balancing I know is tough but this is one area The Division needs to nail either through simplification or separate PvE and PvP balancing (I've long thought in the DZ all classified gearset bonuses should be lost, the lore is already in place when it says connection lost, local connection only, no power, you're on your own with only the basic rolled buffs etc).
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  9. #9
    echolecter's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by agentCoats Go to original post
    The issue with this sort of thing is realism or simulation of realism. Do you have any idea the sort of variables it takes to prepare a shot from long distance? Or the time and patience to do so? At least if the sniper wants to remain undetected. Do you have any reason to believe these will be in TD2?
    There is absolutely no realism in the current game and most likely won't be any in the next one. Everyone that is trained for combat knows that standing straight is the worst thing you can do. Not only does it make yourself a big target, but it also is very difficult to control your weapon having to support its full weight. The same applies to emptying a full magazine with 200+ bullets. By the time you reach half of it my best guess is the barrel of your weapon would have exploded already. It has to stay a game with the unrealistic fun to shoot and do the 'Rambo' stuff on the bullet sponges or else fights are over in matter of seconds.

    I have no idea what will be in the next game since there just isn't any info on that besides that you will have to choose your specialization at level 30. But I do know if they intend to put any realism into the game, having sniper riffle does give you maximum range to shoot at others while in cover.
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  10. #10
    agentCoats's Avatar Senior Member
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    Originally Posted by RushLoongHammer Go to original post
    In terms of PvP
    I don't want to see gearsets that if you have either have the wrong gearset equipped to counter an enemy or the wrong skills equipped, you don't have a chance.
    I don't want to see probability % to activate talent stuff. More deterministic and player activated talents.
    I don't want to see 1 hit builds or just very fast kill builds. No fun when you cant react. It's the part about Destiny's PvP I don't like.
    I don't want to see rooting effects if it means your likely death

    I want to see more information of how I died. A name and weapon is good but we needs more information when you die. Sometimes I don't know how I died and it makes no sense.
    I want to see how was the damage dealt and where on your body it was dealt during the battle when you died. This will give the player an insight on what could look like a suspect death.
    I want to see an image of the player who killed you at the instant they shot the killing bullet showing their location and their angle of attack on you.
    I want to see far less useless gear and weapons than Div1; more viable weapons, skills, and builds.
    I want to see less of a class based gear. For me in PvP Gearsets were alright, but the Classifieds went to far into classes.
    You want to see and dont want to see a fair few things. My own views aside, what about the ppl who want to see the reverse of some of the things you want to see? Should they be disregarded?

    I will point out that no one mentioned that any one gearset should be a direct counter to another but counters should exist and be available. But no gear set should have ALL of these possible counters. That would be just as bad. Choosing the "correct" skills for one situation will not necessarily be the right ones for the next one. Thats how it is now and thats how it should be. However if you look at what most ppl are running, its mostly offfensive +++ like a pulse and one that also counters the enemy pulse..... well.... thats one design that isnt balanced. Its only tempered bc most players don run any electronics or mods for it. The issue in this game is that choosing the "wrong" skills in this game is multiplied when youre outnumbered.

    As for more transparency...... aye.... been saying it for many months. Esp. when youve been killed in less than a second.

    Originally Posted by teado25 Go to original post
    I completely agree about the gearset idea, would love for a team to have to have a diverse range of gearsets, no meta should ever be so that you all need to run the same gearset. Also agree with RushLoongHammer about either a killcam or more information when you die. Balancing I know is tough but this is one area The Division needs to nail either through simplification or separate PvE and PvP balancing (I've long thought in the DZ all classified gearset bonuses should be lost, the lore is already in place when it says connection lost, local connection only, no power, you're on your own with only the basic rolled buffs etc).
    Normalizaton in every pvp mode may be a useful thing but in the dz its pointless. If youre a group of 4 or 8 against one player..... its not going to mean much. That mode is just what it is. I await to see what it will be in TD2 but I cant see it changing much. If they dont introduce balanced classifieds then it maybe best to get the game early before they are incorporated into the game. Thats probably where and when the most balanced pvp will take place.

    Originally Posted by echolecter Go to original post
    There is absolutely no realism in the current game and most likely won't be any in the next one. Everyone that is trained for combat knows that standing straight is the worst thing you can do. Not only does it make yourself a big target, but it also is very difficult to control your weapon having to support its full weight. The same applies to emptying a full magazine with 200+ bullets. By the time you reach half of it my best guess is the barrel of your weapon would have exploded already. It has to stay a game with the unrealistic fun to shoot and do the 'Rambo' stuff on the bullet sponges or else fights are over in matter of seconds.

    I have no idea what will be in the next game since there just isn't any info on that besides that you will have to choose your specialization at level 30. But I do know if they intend to put any realism into the game, having sniper riffle does give you maximum range to shoot at others while in cover.
    I think were all waiting to see more info. The range thing also may actually work better in the wide open areas of the map. Again well have to wait and see if it does. Cant see true sniper warfare as was mentioned in another thread a long time ago. Also the suppression qualities of an LMG may actually work here given the E3 demo. With the need to be in cover to repair armor, it may actually be possible for a group to have two lmgs suppress another team while 2 other member sneak up and flank them. Again we shall see. All depends on what the devs want from pvp......
    That just leaves the shotgun..... a weapon that should be used to stagger and affect players accuracy to hit another player more than kill them. But then I guess that sort of realism will just become cheese to some players.
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