Ubi.. Why so long on the CONQ NERF! | Forums

[Hormly]

Patience! Another 6-12 months and they'll have enough data I'm sure 😂

[ChampionRuby50g]

In 4v4, wouldn’t it be 23 damage though, due to Conqs feat (shieldbasher I think it’s called), that deals 10 damage on hit and can kill?

[Hormly]

I'm sick of people saying it's good that he has a game breaking move because otherwise he'd be lackluster. This is terrible game design philosophy, quit defending your OP baby with this silliness

[Eisenwolf.]

Did you not notice the animation change they did to conq shield bash at Marching Fire Open Test?

Question will be: Is that all they gonna change / will it be enough.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

In 4v4, wouldn’t it be 23 damage though, due to Conqs feat (shieldbasher I think it’s called), that deals 10 damage on hit and can kill?

And?

I'm sick of people saying it's good that he has a game breaking move because otherwise he'd be lackluster. This is terrible game design philosophy, quit defending your OP baby with this silliness

Wow I'm so terribly sorry that people on a public forum pointed out that there is a much deeper, nuanced problem and a simplistic change to shield bash's miss recovery isn't going to fix it. How will you ever recover?

[Charmzzz]

And?

And that makes it a better Opener than, well, any other?

Wow I'm so terribly sorry that people on a public forum pointed out that there is a much deeper, nuanced problem and a simplistic change to shield bash's miss recovery isn't going to fix it. How will you ever recover?

Fix what? Why are you defending SB recovery so hard? It is a move which is barely punishable at all. No other Character has something like this. Sad for Conq that he has to rely on it as his only Opener, but that, still, does not mean that an OP move has to stay in the game. Buff him somewhere else, but get rid of unpunishable moves...

[Vrbas1]

I'm sick of people saying it's good that he has a game breaking move because otherwise he'd be lackluster. This is terrible game design philosophy, quit defending your OP baby with this silliness

Woah, hey I understand that. I appreciate that. But instead of OP, Conq is more of a one-trick pony because that's his only option. Is it reliable? Yes. Can it be abused? Yes. Are there many other options for him? No. There are some cool looking pieces to his kit (all-block counterattack, infinite light/heavy combo, shield bash after light OR heavy), but none of these ever really come into play real-time because they're either too risky or simply don't work (i.e. too telegraphed, slow, etc).

I'd like to think we could earn your cooperation in seeing a view of conqueror that is different from your own.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

Fix what?

Feel free to re-read the posts.

Why are you defending SB recovery so hard? It is a move which is barely punishable at all. No other Character has something like this.

I correct misinformation regarding it but otherwise I think it's a cheap crutch as is clearly inferred in most posts where I point out that it's the only effective offense Conqueror has.

Sad for Conq that he has to rely on it as his only Opener, but that, still, does not mean that an OP move has to stay in the game. Buff him somewhere else, but get rid of unpunishable moves...

I'm all for buffing other offense and letting a "harasser" move like shield bash take the back seat as I've said that several times already.

[Charmzzz]

If a Character has only one move to be aggressive, but that move is utterly broken, there is no way to justify the Character keeping that move. Any barely punishable move, or Character specifics that enabled them to be barely punishable, got eliminated from the game by the Devs, e.g.: Warden's first SB iteration, Cent's recovery after missed punches, PK's dodge recovery times overall.

- Warden had a hard time after his signature move was fixed for over a year.
- Centurion, oh boy, he is garbage since they fixed the moves that made him broken on release
- PK, pretty bad now with her dodge recoveries normalized

And the PK thing is very important: NORMALIZED recovery. Conq does not have a normalized recovery, he has a special one which makes his SB only punishable on paper. If that is the only move he has to attack, well, f*ck, bad for him. That is still not an argument to keep it the way it is, just like the other Chars got nothing when the broken things were removed.

[ArchDukeInstinct]

If a Character has only one move to be aggressive, but that move is utterly broken, there is no way to justify the Character keeping that move. Any barely punishable move, or Character specifics that enabled them to be barely punishable, got eliminated from the game by the Devs, e.g.: Warden's first SB iteration, Cent's recovery after missed punches, PK's dodge recovery times overall.

Centurion back in the day was OP for several factors but miss recoveries was never one of them.The most glaring issue was his ability to 100-0 people simply by getting a jab near a wall, guaranteeing a heavy which in turn guaranteed a jab (as long as you changed direction for the heavy). In an extreme case of irony, the miss recovery for the uncharged jab was actually reduced from 800ms to 700ms in the same patch, which (fun fact) is the same miss recovery for Conqueror's shield bash.

You can see the aforementioned patch here: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en...41-patch-notes

As for Warden, there was a lot more wrong than just recovery time such as the window to cancel into a GB being so ridiculously long you could just wait for the opponent to dodge and then react to that by canceling into guard break. They also increased the stamina usage required, etc.

- Centurion, oh boy, he is garbage since they fixed the moves that made him broken on release

He was actually still quite solid because he could get so much damage off of a light parry. Then he went to crap after the parry changes. I guess you were too busy telling everyone to guard right to notice, though.

- PK, pretty bad now with her dodge recoveries normalized

Well it just wouldn't be a Charmzz post if it didn't inevitably return to blubbering about Peacekeeper.

And the PK thing is very important

We know, Charmzz. WE KNOW...

Conq does not have a normalized recovery, he has a special one which makes his SB only punishable on paper.

If you bothered to actually test it, you'd see that it's clearly punishable in practice (on reaction at that) with a 600ms side dodge recovery. It just has to be quick enough. Just try with a bot in the training arena as it is guaranteed that it's not going to miss any counter guard breaks that are possible. You will find that you can get a guaranteed guard break after a forward shield on reaction quite consistently. Of course vs another player there's going to be some extra lag that isn't going to make it as consistent as you can do in the training arena but nonetheless you will clearly find that it's very much doable.

You keep harping on these "normalized recoveries" but you only mysteriously took up this quest for "normalized recoveries" when you decided that shield bash's miss recovery was the biggest problem in this game. You never cared pre-rework when shield bash had an even lower recovery at 600ms, is it because you were too busy with your 75% win rate as Peacekeeper vs Conqueror to care about balance let alone "normalized recoveries"?

If that is the only move he has to attack, well, f*ck, bad for him. That is still not an argument to keep it the way it is, just like the other Chars got nothing when the broken things were removed.

Oh really? Is that so? Because last time I checked, PK got several buffs to other moves while receiving their damage nerfs in S6. The buffs included their soft feint for combo heavies, the ability to soft feint the zone attack into a top light, the soft feint into light from heavy being moved to the top instead of being the same direction as the heavy, and their bleeds now stack.

If you also looked at when Warlord got his large nerfs last year, they also increased his damage for several attacks. Meanwhile Conqueror and Vaklyrie who were C Tier at the time took collateral damage from a nerf meant for Warlord when full block stance prevented counter guard breaking and we didn't get anything but he did. For Conqueror specifically we got told from the devs "oh well you're going to get a rework at some point so it's fine" but it would still be another third of a year at least...