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  1. #1

    Breach Core Rebalancing of the Mode. Feedback & Tweaking V3

    A Complete Tweak and overlook at Breach's layout and Format. I Tweaked many parts and after doing Breach for nearly 4 days none stop with pre-made teams, solo queuing and much more this is what I think could benefit the game mode to make it feel less Linear and less stagnant for defenders and make it more balanced and interesting and objective based in general.

    Breach Feels Long But not Rewarding This will all be explained how to make this map and gamemode better below Including Rewards!
    Firstly The AI in games when players dropped out. A few times they were just standing around near edges/corners/spawn just standing there inactive They don't listen to Quick chat commands as accurately as Dominion bots for some reason? Lastly due to long respawn timers you often spend a long-ish spaces of time pushing objectives or waiting to respawn you should be able to Hover over the Map and use “B” (the beacon button for those who use controller on console). And be able to place beacons to help drive teammates to go to specific regions.
    As for healing there is a section below that will cover this.

    I still Think this game mode would benefit teams of 6, But this likely won't happen My post/this rebalancing post has been posted nearly three times by me and those who*


    A Major Part of Breach I think that needs to be looked at is the Layout of each area' Currently for
    This is the First Area.
    (poorly drawn sorry couldn't get an area picture as getting this info out was more important at the time):

    Currently Breach's First Area Feels Very short and almost meaningless. It feels fun and exciting to be on a battlefield though once you leave the wall you realize how small this area is. The Heal Zone is Right next to a ledge and by the ladders below at [1] This doesn't make sense for the Defenders to have to leave there wall's to heal. In fact it doesn't make sense for the attackers either. Having 2 heal zones would make retreating in the first area of this map viable for both teams. And The Heal zones should AUTO unclaim in the first Area every 2 Minutes when nobodys in the zone so they must be reclaimed to heal. I moved the Shield Banner's Spawn to be in the corner so that its slightly harder for attackers to get but also is just as tedious for the defenders to obtain. Before it was by the tunnel exit and it was much easier for the attackers to grab.



    The Second Area' I reorganized the Boosts and Made it so the Guardian Drops the Reinforcement "Shield Banner"
    You can Take the Shield Banner over to the Ram, The Gate, OR Either Team can take it to the Prison and get extra troops to help push against the ram or push against the gate (more info explained below)..



    Reorganizing the Breach Objectives slightly in this way I showed in the picture
    (just minor tweaks are shown such as the 1st Shield banner is in the Corner so its a bit harder for the Attackers to get just as hard as it is for Defenders.
    The heal boost is not in such a heated area so that its not jsut who is camping the Heal boost the whole game. As well as If they made all Boosts take capping for a second it increases the chances of possible conflicts. The Defense is at the First Floor of the 1st Tower (Tower 4 So that Attackers can get some extra Defense before pushing the Towers)
    The Attack Boost is at the Pikemen Defenders Ladder at 6 So that Defenders can have some Extra Attack in case they are being pushed back heavily.
    The Speed Boost is at the most active area in case people need to group up, split up, go cap another point quickly. Or need to chance down someone.
    I copied all the info based on Breach as a placeholder that they told us on the first day as well as the next day extra tickets and HP for the Ram are included in this Mega post.

    But I felt as well as 8+ other members who have grouped up every day for doing breach in premades and all have split up to do solo's to see how the mode felt. We came to a moderate conclusion based on things we saw that if they changed the above info that i am suggesting it would help the gameplay and fluidity of the mode.

    Breach Mode Rewards Tweak:
    75 Steel
    1150 Experience


    Pikemen
    The Pikemen cause 7 damage per hit
    They have 47 hp
    They will interrupt:

    Revive
    Interactions
    Executions

    They can be external blocked
    They will target other Pikemen first, followed by the Ram and then Players


    Officers
    Officers only spawn on the Ramparts/Archer Points
    They have 102hp
    They can be external blocked
    They will prioritize Pikemen and then Archers before focusing on the Players


    Captains
    Officers only spawn on the Ramparts/Archer Points
    They have 120hp
    They can be external blocked
    They will prioritize Pikemen and then Archers before focusing on the Players
    There is a Special Variant to these Captains that can be claimed by going to the “Prisoner barrack’s” to free them they will assist your Pikemen a reinforcements and will put more Pressure on the Gate or More Pressure on the Ram depending on who frees them.
    Captains Do Show up in the beginning Battlefield Area and also Defend The Lord
    Captains Take Bonus Damage while pushing the Ram, Similar to players on ballista’s


    Shield Captains
    Officers only spawn on the Ramparts/Archer Points
    They have 140hp
    They can be external blocked
    They will prioritize Pikemen and then Archers before focusing on the Players
    There is a Special Variant to these Shield Captains that can be claimed by going to the “Prisoner barrack’s” to free them they will assist your Pikemen a reinforcements and will put more Pressure on the Gate or More Pressure on the Ram depending on who frees them.

    Ram
    The ram has 9000 HP
    The ram has Captains who will show up with the Attackers pikemen and will get to the sides and put away there weapons and push it (currently there's hidden minions pushing who can't be killed).
    The captains who are pushing the Ram will not stop pushing unless 100% of their teams pikemen were killed and they are being attacked they will get out and all attack whoever is attacking them. (this will alert the whole attackers team that the ram is stopped and being damaged)
    The Ram has a box around it similar to the storymodes Siege weapon this box is only see-able to the attackers as they are the ones pushing it.
    Having no player next to the ram but having pikemen push it is possible if the defenders pikemen stay at bay. This is easily slowed down A LOT if your pikemen encounter defender pikemen a lot the ram will stop.
    The Ram will move 1x faster if there is 1 player and pikemen around the Ram.
    The Ram will Move 2.2x faster (this is the max) if there is 2 Players around the Ram + pikemen.
    The ram will advance/charge faster when the entire area around it is free of Defenders (both Pikemen and Players) and has both Attacker Pikemen and Players present near it.
    The ram will stop completely (move or charge) when the area around it has no Attackers (Pikemen and Players)
    In all other cases, the ram will move/charge at regular speed
    The regular charging time for the ram is 50 secs
    The fast speed charging time for the ram is 27 secs
    The ram will take damage from Pikemen, Players’ attacks as well as Feats, the Ballista and the Cauldron
    In each phase, the ram goes through 2 steps: advancing towards the Gate and charging when docked at the Gate. Once the ram is completely charged, it will strike the Gate

    Gates
    The Gates will only take damage from the Ram
    It takes 2 Ram hits on the Outer Gate to destroy it
    It takes 3 Ram hits on the Inner Gate to destroy it
    When the Outer Gate is destroyed, it will give
    5 Respawn Tickets to the Attackers
    Heal the Ram by 2250 HP
    When the Inner Gate is destroyed, it grants the Attackers 7 Respawn Tickets


    Archers Points
    The initial capture (change of ownership) of an Archer Point takes 3s and can be performed by either side
    Only Attackers can Fortify an Archer Point and upon Fortification, it cannot be retaken by the Defenders
    The Fortification of an Archer Point takes 20s if both Attacker Pikemen and Player(s) are present
    The Fortification of an Archer Point takes 55s if either Attacker Pikemen or Players are present
    Control of an Archer Point will grant the owners 4 Archers, which respawn every 21s
    Archers will concentrate on Pikemen and will fire only in the Main Lane
    Archers will do 9 damage to Pikemen and will do 7 damage to players
    Archer Ramparts can Be retaken by either team. This would allow for a more dynamic battlefield on its own. You shouldn't simply lose it once and not be able to reclaim it.


    Cauldron
    Cauldron is Defended by 2 Defender “Officers” instead of 1 or now atm.
    The Cauldron will deal 900 Dmg to the Ram
    The Cauldron will insta-kill Attacker Pikemen and deal 35hp to Attacker Players and +1 dmg per second until the oil drys up.
    The Cauldron does 10 damage to the Defenders Pikemen
    The Cauldron will deals 18hp to Defenders Players
    The Cauldron is treated as a unique fire flask (has slow burn effect longer your in the radius and has some smoke effects (black smoke and embers)
    The Cauldron’s, Hot Oil & coals being spilled onto the ram Should STOP the Ram completely from being pushed until the effects and fire contact ends with the RAM.
    The Cauldron being spilled onto anyone below gives them a slowness debuff and any archers hitting said person gets double damage from them until the effect goes away (10 seconds)
    It takes 5s to trigger the Cauldon
    The Cauldron has a cooldown of 30s
    They become inactive once the phase is over (Gate is destroyed)
    Cauldron area of effect radius has been reduced to 9.2m



    Ballista
    Ballista reload time is 3s
    Ballista does full damage on friendly fire
    Ballista insta-kills Pikemen
    Ballista causes 31 damage to Players
    Ballista causes 34 damage to Lord
    Ballista causes 20 damage to the Ram
    Ballista becomes inactive once the phase is over (Gate is destroyed)


    Prison Barracks
    Prison Barracks is new Objective for both teams that spawns 2 minutes after the Outer gate is destroyed. Either team can go to the Barracks and free prisoners and get extra Soldiers that are reinforced “soldiers” to Attack the Ram or To Defend the Ram & Attack the Wall.
    The Barrack Soldiers Will be made out of Captains, Shield wielding Captains & some officers. They will not attack the ram nor attack the gate. They simply will help clear the Pikemen of the enemy's side so that the pikemen can push against the ram or gate even harder. This could pose a huge threat of a small squad that is clearing your minion's at a fast rate. Once the Prisoner Solider's are Killed off they will not respawn for 3 Minutes, after which you will need to place the Shield banner at the Prisoner Shrine Door to Free them again.
    Prison Reinforcements Can be told with Quick Chat to Attack a Specific Area Such at Point 6 or Point 7, or Defend the Ram. This gives them some Dynamic Play and could be quite useful for players to have them.
    Reinforcement Soldiers Amount: 3 Shield Captains, 3 Captains, 4 Officers.
    Prison Reinforcement's Prioritize - Pikemen, Captains/Officers, Players, Ram/Gate (they will attack this if there is no Pikemen doing said job)


    Healing Zones
    It takes 3.7s to control the Healing Zone
    They will heal a player by 10hp per second
    They will also cleanse any negative debuffs currently applied to the player
    They become inactive once the phase is over (Gate is destroyed)


    Other Zones/Boost Points (Defense/Attack/Speed)

    Defense Boost Is at Point [4]
    Heal Boost Is at Guardians Entrance - (replacing the defense where it is currently)
    Speed Boost Is at Point [5] replacing the Heal zone that was there ^
    All Boost’s Act like the Heal Zone, Only in the fact you must stand on it for 3.7s to capture it and then after you do that you instantly get the Boost and It will vanish Only 1 player can claim said Boost at a time until it respawns. This could make boost camping less preferable.


    Shield Banners
    The Shield Banners shield either the Gate or the Ram
    They must be brought to the Gate’s Banner Stand for the Defender or the Ram’s Banner Stand for the Attackers
    They are dropped when the carrying player receives damage, gets bumped, or is successfully thrown
    The interaction time to pick them up is 1.8s
    The interaction time to place the Banner is 3.4s
    Shield Banners Can be located at the Guardians Shrine - You must Kill the Guardian and he Will Drop the Shield Banner + a mini boost.
    They shield the Gate for 1 Ram hit
    They shield the Ram for 1200 hp
    They cannot be stacked (only one Shield at a time), although they can be placed multiple times (will simply reset the Shield)
    They initially spawn after 3 minutes from the start of a phase, and respawn every 4 minutes after they are used
    They become inactive once the phase is over (Gate is destroyed)


    Guardian
    Guardian spawns between 20s after the destruction of the Outer Gate
    Once killed, the Guardian Spawns after 3m 10s But will be The Colour of the team that last defeated him.
    Guardian Will attack the Enemy team that he didn't die to last time.
    Guardian is on your side you must defend him for 65 Seconds. If nobody from the enemy team comes to attack him He will give(drop) the Shield Flag for you.
    Guardian has 765 hp
    Guardian gives 85 Renown to the Player who gets the last hit
    Guardian gives 30 Renown to the surrounding “assist” players who help Kill him.

    Guardian grants all members of the killer’s team within 20 meters:
    Attack boost - Lasts 30 Seconds
    Shield boost - 1 ½ bars (38 Shield protection of hp) - No Time Duration Goes away once you get hit enough or die (same concept as tribute.)
    Speed boost - Lasts 30 Seconds
    The Attack/Speed Boost will stay active if the player is revived
    Guardian Throw’s Fire Flask & Bombs every few seconds. (he already does this currently in game)
    Guardian Should be a ‘dumb’ Level 2 Bot (He should not be a level 1 bot like he is currently)


    The Commander - Lord
    The Lord spawns upon destruction of the Inner Gate
    The Lord has 1050HP
    The Lord is a Better Level 2 Bot (currently he is way to dumb).
    Commander Top Heavy Unblockable should be 62 Dmg.
    The Lord has a Fire Bomb He will use it to Throw at people who camp the ballista (its pretty weak but the fact you get more damage on the ballista is a threat onto itself).
    I think they should lower the Lords Own damage on his attacks so he can defend himself somewhat more since he will be level 2 not 1.
    He should take Less damage from feats - 52% Less damage from feat Buffs



    Feats:
    Inspire Feat
    The ‘Inspire’ Feat (Raider; Highlander, etc ) Works on Archers, Pikemen, Captains, Officers

    - Should make the new unique minions fight faster and harder like the regular minions as well as the Officers.

    Bounty Hunter Feat
    The ‘Bounty Hunter’ Feat (Valkyrie, Centurion) Works on: Captains, ‘Shield’ Captains, Officers


    Phalanx Feat
    The ‘Phalanx’ Feat (Centurion) Works on Captains, ‘Shield’ Captains, Officers

    - Any Officers who was alive during the Feat's Usage will have the extra Shield life & wont lose the protection until they get killed.

    Doom Banner
    The ‘Doom Banner’ Feat (Berserker) Works on Archers, Captains, Officers, Pikemen.
    - Could make this feat some what better for killing these unique npc' minions

    Conqueror Feat
    The ‘Conqueror’ Feat (Warden; Peacekeeper; Conqueror; Lawbringer) doesn’t work on Archer Points
    - Makes sense because they are unique Minion types that are contesting the point and or is user specific.

    Defender's Should Get renown From:
    Defending an Objective

    Using the Hot Oil Cauldron on the Ram should give you Renown. (12) + per minion is 2+ renown/Minion Killed.


    Defenders Reviving Renown Gain:
    -- 1st Area - Outer Wall
    Reviving Gives 30 Renown

    -- 2nd Area - Inner Wall
    Reviving Gives 50 Renown

    -- 3rd Area - Kings Court
    Reviving Gives 70 Renown


    Attackers Should get Renown from:
    Defending and following the RAM should give Renown. (+1 Renown per second) for standing by it and Pushing the Ram.

    Contesting an Objective you have already started to claim



    Attackers Reviving Renown Gain:
    -- 1st Area - Outer Wall
    Reviving Gives 60 Renown

    -- 2nd Area - Inner Wall
    Reviving Gives 40 Renown

    -- 3rd Area - Kings Court
    Reviving Gives 50 Renown


    p.s. The Ram part of this mode should play out almost exactly like the Storymode Castle Siege, Would make it have more fludity.
    also RAM should have Officers that put away there weapons and push the siege machine similar to story mode.


    Edit 1: Added info about the Renown gain that should be implemented so we have more ways to get Renown.
    The way i set up renown Favor's Attackers in the beginning But then favors Defenders at the End for holding their ground against the attacker onslaught.
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  2. #2
    The Main Issue With Breach is even Killing the Guardian doesn't feel like a "Requirement" Due to him not being an actual reliable objective worth the time.
    Even when you are winning you feel like you are losing.

    They added random Events of buildings being destroyed or etc and other Dynamic stuff that trigger throughout the battle which makes it more immersive if they can make these events happen randomly instead of a complete cycle or make there be multiple versions of the same event and only 1 plays per chance it would make the 7 events Happening in the event feel like the fight has weight.

    I Am Not saying events and destruction makes the fight feel worth it but breach is lacking in so many areas that The Objectives are Not really Objectives The only thing Attackers NEED TO do is Snowball/DeathBall / Group the heck up and storm the first point and the defenders still need to push the ram and the First point or they lose.

    The fight is always 1 sided even if the defenders destroy the atttackers. There is more dynamic strats in the events that happen in the map then actual strats in gameplay and tactics for players to do. I hope the Devs will consider and look over this huge Post i will post Follow up pictures to the other 2 maps and how thye could be tweaked as well If i need to.
    '
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  3. #3
    This mode is pretty well balanced.

    I would SEVERLY stay away from nerfing the minions. Their impact should be felt and they already can be external blocked, and to me they are alrady underwhelming. I don't want a Dominion 2.0 with runnung cardboard troopers.

    For the other points i also disagree, except the cauldron changes with "Fire Flask" longer burn and 2 defender Officiers instad of 1.

    Also things you mentioned, like the 31Dmg Balista is not good, because it is already 2-hit. No much nerf needed. Should it be completely useless? If there is a guy using it, them clear him away. Don't ask to baby-size it instead. Same with minions. If they hit you too hard, then you do something wrong. I want non-player impact, and you ask to nerf it into the ground.

    The only thing I would want is the change the guardian in the way, that he would fight for those who defeated him until death. But that's it.

    It feels very good to me and any other change would be unappreciated by me.

    Just my opinon.
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  4. #4
    We are not asking to nerf the minions that is not even the purpose of this post many of the listed things above they already took from my feedback in V2 of this post.
    last time we posted this we got like 30+ upvotes tho the dev's ignored it and only did the pikemen dmg and did minor map tweaking and no real balancing.
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  5. #5
    This is a great Post. I do not think Illyrian_King has played breach or knows it's basic values enough to make such an assessment.
    Either that or they may be newer to the game and dont realize that most of the post above has already been in breach or is very close to it as it is.

    I agree with the post above and it seems fairly well balanced and seems to hit the points where breach fails.
    +1
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  6. #6
    I will be posting a Rebalance layout of the other 2 New breach maps. They are not in as bad of shape as the knights breach map.
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  7. #7
    Originally Posted by SmokeSumGrass Go to original post
    We are not asking to nerf the minions that is not even the purpose of this post many of the listed things above they already took from my feedback in V2 of this post.
    last time we posted this we got like 30+ upvotes tho the dev's ignored it and only did the pikemen dmg and did minor map tweaking and no real balancing.
    Then am I just reading wrong or why do you want pikemen to do 7dmg instead of 10 (actual value)?

    Originally Posted by BrokeMyClass Go to original post
    This is a great Post. I do not think Illyrian_King has played breach or knows it's basic values enough to make such an assessment.
    Either that or they may be newer to the game and dont realize that most of the post above has already been in breach or is very close to it as it is.

    I agree with the post above and it seems fairly well balanced and seems to hit the points where breach fails.
    +1
    I played about 15 matches and watched even more played by professionals, dude ... what are you talking? ^^
    I am here since even before release and everyday looking for any kind of news, thanks.

    In all the posts you defend the pikemen, but here you support to lower their damage from 10 to 7. You are spesking against your own statements. I would like them to do 12 damage even.


    Edit: Eventhough I admit, the Prisson Baracks idea is actually good, but don't touch my pikemen with a nerf.
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  8. #8
    @Illyrian_King We would like more minions if they lowered the damage more. That also explains why we want more archers and more dynamics in Breach instead of it be death ball and no tactics currently..
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  9. #9
    Originally Posted by SmokeSumGrass Go to original post
    @Illyrian_King We would like more minions if they lowered the damage more. That also explains why we want more archers and more dynamics in Breach instead of it be death ball and no tactics currently..
    You ask for 4 Archers instead of 3, which do a lot less damage. If I am not wrong, every Pikemen has 47HP, and it takes 2 arrows to kill them.
    If an arrow dealt only 9dmg, it would take incredible 6 shots to kill a Pikemen.

    Also screwing the Pikemen damage down to 7 in all 3 phases would not compromise the Prison Barracks in phase 2, which still takes a banner that could shield a ram or gate instead.

    The only real thing you "offer" (from my point of view), are the Captains with 120HP that go alongside with the slightly weaker Officiers on Ramparts and around the Commander.

    I am not a fan of all this.


    The only things from your post, that I support are:

    1) Fire Flask extra burn from the Cauldron, as it is strange all that boiling oil to disappear instantly.
    2) 2 defender Officiers in the Cauldron Area, as I always proposed 1-2 more defender minions in that part in my earlier threads.
    3) The Prison Barracks, as I once proposed to be able putting a banner near to a Siege tower to get some extra reinforcement in. But this was not thought-through enough. Just a basic idea.

    I also agree with making the Guardian more important, but I proposed making him an ally to whom defeats him.


    Edit: Also dedicating some troops to the command of the Player would add a lot of strategy and fun, but it should be point of discussion, if it should only be the unchained prisoners or/and one Officier per player.

    Having a "Pet Officier" by default, who respawns every 2min and can be send to certain areas by a extra segment in the quick chat.

    Having some traces of minion commanding, would add dynamism, fun and also some feeling of being in charge of "your army", which is better then having no connection to your troops.

    I proposed such stuff even before release ...
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  10. #10
    [bump]
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