My balance feedback on the Shaolin after playing him for 9 hours straight | Forums

[Enemy_Bogeyman]

I think Shaolin is a fantastic character, and is so close to being perfect but there are a couple changes that are absolutely NECESSARY. Some of them were already there but were then inexplicably taken away.

1). Dodge out of Qi stance. I can't stress enough how IMPORTANT this is. If you're playing against a character with a neutral bash they can just hit you out of Qi stance right away and there's nothing you can do. Outside of that, it just limits mobility and options so much for a character who's all about being quick and nimble. Also the crushing counter strike is just way too hard to pull off in a real fight bc of the control scheme and we need to be able to deflect out of qi stance.

2). Stamina drain in Qi stance is way too punishing. Qi stance is supposed to be the bread and butter of Shaolin, but you've chosen to greatly punish him for using it. A couple feints and a move out of Qi stance will put him entirely out of stamina. There's no time to assess what to throw or how the player reacts. It becomes a guessing game for both parties of throwing a random attack from Qi stance the second you enter it.

3) Dodge attack starts chains. Pretty much every character's dodge attack starts chains except for Shaolins. I can't tell you how many times I've done a dodge attack and pressed light because it's such an intuitive follow up for it to lead into his infinite. Right now it just feels like an awkward one off. This would be a HUGE quality of life adjustment, one already present in every hero (except for PK I believe) anyways.

Everything else that got nerfed was just bells and whistles, but these three things are ESSENTIAL to the character's flow. The changes made to Qi stance from the previous test are so much of a handicap they just diminish the potential for awesome combos into oblivion, and instead you have to opt for mediocre one offs (90% in the form of kick/undodgeable heavy 50/50) and then waiting to regain your stamina and do it again.

Don't make him into a one trick. Not Shaolin. Give him back the ability for true complex gameplay.

[Timmytenga7]

I couldn’t agree more with what you have said as again someone who has spent a lot of time with shaolin in the test so far he just needs those few tweaks and he will be one of the most detailed and interesting heroes in the game. Fundamentally he needs the dodge out of qi stance and we need at least a reduction on stamina drain while in qi stance as it forces his hand much too early and doesn’t allow for a calculated move at all. It is simply a matter of throwing a move about with the hope it connects.

Despite all the small nerfs he received before the open test it’s clear as a character he has so much potential. I just hope we get to experience fully a character with such a high skill ceiling once some of these issues are addressed.

[Nikaa47]

Maybe to add something is that it seems to be that shadowdefense got the same problem like the heavy deflect of the orochi most of the time you get hit while performing your deflect.

[Redditmember55]

They can give him this little buffs, but one thing, make that kick from QI stance slower, now it is around 400 ms, it is unreactable, you can only guess, I knew that the kick was coming but I could not dodge because it is way fast, especially if you are not playing as an assassin which has more dodge type fighting style. Or tone down the light damage on the kick, I know it is just a light, but the damage is 21, all of the bash moves guarantees a light (exept shaman) but those lights are around 13-15 damage.

And the triple light combo for 22 guaranteed damagem it is mostly a heavy attack, and it is an easy move, you dont need two chain lights, just the first hit, with his 400 ms top light is not a big deal.

Ubisfot said it will be the most complex and hardest character to learn, than dont give him cheese moves, because 90% of the players will use the 2, 3 cheese moves, and it wont become what we expect, a high skilled warrior, with lots of mixup potential.

[Kysnap]

The sun kick is 500ms. It's easy enough to dodge and it doesn't have variable timings. It doesn't need to be any slower.

Adding onto the post: Let Shaolin flow into Qi stance from dodge attacks. Would give him even more mix ups to play around with.

[UbiInsulin]

Thanks for putting this together!

[Trustful_Whale]

Strongly agree with opening post. I am at a complete loss why Qi Stance has been nerfed so hard when it's the core of the character, and wasn't even considered all that strong anyways, yet it gets nerfed.
I can live without Shaolin's stunning tap, but dodging out of qi and fixing the stamina drain should be top priority.

In regards to the stamina drain in particular I would like some kind of explanation for. We already can't move while in QS, can't counter guardbreak, and can't block. Why make us feel even more rooted by forcing any further action to keep us anim locked for just that much longer? Or stress out the Shaolin player any time they enter QS in case they hold the pose for too long and are suddenly out of stamina?

I am referring to the fact that a Shaolin now has to press Cancel to immediately leave QS and it still isn't as fast as simply dodging out, which also gave us the opportunity for deflects.

I can understand why Shaolin cannot flow into QS from dash attacks, chain enders, or QS attacks, but not this.

[Knight_Raime]

Agree. Though I also think sweep needs some changes. It only comes after a kick and is too easy to simply avoid. And you can't threaten with it.