I decided to finally make this post because I've noticed over the last several months a growing list of problems that have been piling up as it relates specifically to pve in the game. I'm not sure if it's due to an influx of new players, returning players, players who have gone into autopilot mode, or just players who don't know any better or have the knowledge. So these are some observations and opinions of mine in regards to pve in the game.
Let's start out with just general things I've observed. If you queu up for group play to run a 4 man team, then please treat it as a team concept instead of 4 solo players who got lumped together.
--- Combat medic is a wonderful team talent and should be utilized by all 4 members of the team. It is not going to break your build or setup to equip this talent.
--- Team composition is important. Be mindful of what builds and skills are being utilized within the team.
--- I promise you we don't need 3 of the 4 all running bomber tactician.
--- We also don't need 3 of you running a mediocre pulse that gives a whopping 8% to Chc and Chd ever 46 seconds. Oh, and side note: please stop showing up using conceal pulse. Npc's don't pulse us so it's basically useless.
--- Also, please stop coming into legendaries with a tac link or survivor link. Especially since most go through the whole mission and never even use the damn thing. And my favorite is when at least 2 teammates go down and tac link boy refuses to switch to recovery link and just let's them die instead. Not to mention the countless number of times that a team wipe could have been prevented by simply switching links.
---Unless you are a high skillpower/determined build, please don't use a recovery link as a personal medkit. Odds are, you're still going to go down because of the situation you put yourself in, and now the rest of your team is screwed for the next 60 seconds waiting for it to come off of cooldown.
---Bring at least 2 loadouts with you that do different things. It's ok to not run one build on repeat. Be willing to switch based on team needs and composition. Please don't be that self-centered ego that requires everyone else to conform to them at all times.
---Unless agreed upon by all group members at the start, please stop expecting everyone to speedrun the content and skipping whole sections of the missions. Not all of us are into that or care to complete the mission a whole 3 minutes faster by skipping sections. There's no cookie given out at the end for that.
---Drop & Pop doesn't work anymore so please adapt accordingly.
---Stop getting mad when teammates muted you because you were blaring your music or eating on your open mic. Not all of us want to hear all that noise.
---Please stop aggroing the next section lonewolf style. Wait for the rest of your team to be ready to go. Some players actually switch loadouts based off of what the next section brings.
---If there is an enemy support station up, please focus the box and/or the medic responsible for said box. Stop wasting everyone's time and ammo by shooting everything else.
---If there is a global event active, please show up with builds that take advantage of it. That's kind of the whole point of them.
That pretty much takes care of the general things, so now onto specifics. There are 3 sets that I have noticed recurring issues with the most frequently. Striker, D3FNC, and Tactician.
---Striker--- I understand perfectly well what this set is capable of, and I welcome it on any team. However, this is not 1.8.2 pvp. Please, stop face-tanking the legendary npc's. It almost never ends well. I promise you that you can dump a huge amount of damage without getting so close that you and the npc could exchange phone numbers. It's ok, and not shameful, to stop shooting for a few seconds to let your Striker healing kick in and get you back in the fight. The world won't end just because you had to stop shooting for a few seconds. It sure beats the alternative of constantly burdening your team by them having to pick you up multiple times and waste recovery links, all because you can't be bothered to pay attention to your health.
---D3FNC--- Another great addition to any team. As long as the person using it knows what they're doing. The shield is great for drawing aggro, it's great for flanking maneuvers, and it's also great for taking down enemy support stations. However, this set requires the user to be constantly mindful of their environment and their teammates' positioning. You should NEVER be smack-dab in the middle as that completely chokes off your 3 teammates' firing lane. Please feel free to move your *** to one side or another. You make a better door than you do a window. Also, when drawing npc aggro, do NOT walk them back to where your teammates are hunkered down in cover. Not only does that literally defeat the point of the shield build, but you're going to get your teammates killed. Either by them having to scatter like rats, exposing them to enemy fire, or because the npc melees the shield and happens to hit everyone in a radius around there. Remember, you are not the be all end all dps. You are a support/dps/tank that serves a very specific function.
---Tactician--- Ahh, my favorite set in the game. As most players know, the power that a tactician brings to the table is unmatched. It can make all the difference on any team it runs with. However, I have to admit that it saddens me to see how it's exclusively being used. It has been pigeonholed into one specific variation, the bomber build. Don't get me wrong, when optimized properly, the bomber build can chunk npc's. But that's just one build and only ever utilizes 2 skills out of the entire tree of skills available. Which is fine when you're running solo, but it's not always the right call when in a group. As a tactician, you have the unique capability of having every skill at your disposal, at all times, and with power that can't be matched. You have the unique ability to change on the fly to whatever the situation calls for.
If there's no healer on the team, then use one skill as a support station to keep the team upright.
If you observe that your team is running high dps builds like Striker, Predator, Lonestar, Sentry, Deadeye...How about using one of your skills as a flashbang? You get it every 12 seconds and it allows your team to completely wreck the enemy unopposed.
If you and your team are in a position of having to fight cover to cover, how about putting on a smart cover? It provides ridiculous amounts of added accuracy and stability, not to mention very decent damage resistance. For added fun and tactics, slap one onto your teammate's shield, and watch them go to town.
Let's not forget a classic, the ole pulse turret. Plenty of added damage for the team, it stacks your tact, plus it's one more thing to get shot at that isn't you or your teammates. Also, I'm sure that your Predator teammate would be grateful at one less skill completely negating their actual bleed vs your baby bleed.
I'm not saying that you should never run bomber tact. I'm saying that you shouldn't pigeonhole your tactician build into only one setup in group play. By doing so, you neuter the power that you have at your disposal.
Well that's about all I have for now. I'm sure there's more that I didn't mention, but these were the ones of the top of my head. Please feel free to add on, to comment, to discuss, and to pass along to any and all players that you come across in legendaries, incursions, and resistance.
Very good tips. Most of the strategies you mentioned are just common sense and logical thinking. But I fully understand why you put in all the effort to write it down here, since I have noticed the same recently - there are many players in legendary missions and heroic incursions who are either very unexperienced or selfish or just blind to the needs of a team. I don't know. The Tactician is a good example: I've just played Napalm legendary with randoms and in the first team three guys had sticky bomb and cluster mines, probably all six piece Tact and not aware of the soft cap. Not one of them switched the set or, at least, switched to healing box. The heeling box of a Tact is not bad at all. Surely better than none. I had to switch from Pred to Reclaimer and they needed it badly. My high skill haste saved their asses several times. Yesterday, I played General Assembly with randoms and two of them had pulse and instant heal, but no skill power. Above that, they always used their meagre amount of heal only for themselves. As you said, you have to check out what your team mates have and adjust yourself accordingly.
The bomber tact that you described is usually 5 pc tact and a relentless backpack to heal themselves. It's a good build, but as you said, there were 3 of them in a 4 man group. It's doable, just silly. I really do feel like the majority of problems that I encounter in pve have to do with the mentality of a bunch of self-centered solo players vs team oriented group players. I've just never understood why players farm and grind their collective butts off for all the classifieds in the game, then choose to run nothing but a single one trick pony build. This game is quite a lot of fun if you challenge yourself to have the ability to run multiple sets and styles efficiently....not just pick the one easy mode build and run nothing but that.Originally Posted by rosch15 Go to original post
I'm interested to hear more things that I left off of my initial observations if anybody has any.
Brilliant post Paul, especially concerning the multiple uses of Tact. A good Tact using the appropriate skills in the right places at the right times can make or break a legendary.
As you mentioned, one thing players often overlook is that different stages within Legendary missions and Incursions require different gears and skills. It pays to allow a few seconds pause between stages to allow for skill changes. Communication is key, for instance before entering the lift for the Boss fight in Napalm I always let my team know which gearset I will be using, usually Reclaimer at this stage since at least one is required. I find it frustrating when teammates are completely silent and will not communicate.
Other than that, I like mentoring new or inexperienced players through the Legendaries, and seeing other experienced players do the same. A team working together with complimentary skills is more effective than the sum of it's individual parts.
Would like to add that people need to actually pay attention to what's going on instead of immediately hitting the panic button and not only wasting their Recovery Link, but forcing the timer on the group. I've had this cause a wipe before - 1 person went down but was being revived by the SS but then once things actually got bad we couldn't save ourselves because of the debuff. Don't just automatically pop it as soon as 1 person is down.
Similarly, getting annoyed AF seeing people coming in with what appears to be a reclaimer setup but actually isn't. It's confusing and annoying.
Lastly I call utter BS on the notion that Tac and Survivor shouldn't be used. I run them on Tactician and Reclaimer respectively and it works beautifully. I can get my Tac link back so fast that it's like having a 2nd Pulse stacked and really helps burst down troublesome mobs - especially with a Sentry user. Survivor is more niche but allows for face tanking paired with my SS.
I don't disagree with anything the OP has said however with randoms even if I use phones most often I'm in a server with different languages. More often than not I find I'm in a speed run allowing no time to switch talants or gear sets as I like to do in some legendary missions. There is no planning or tactics used by 70% of player's. My main gripes are running too far forward allowing NPCS to flank and get behind, incorrect use of rec link, and sticky bombs in enclosed areas. Anyway in my view the method used to inflate mission's to legendary by the devs (everything but the kitchen sink thrown) does not lead itself to much in the way of tactics or planning. Think Warrengate not a metal gear solid incursion as my playthrough last night was more a group of headless chickens running round.
Ok, I have to add a few sentences to the use of the Signature Skills as well. As mentioned above, a Tac link can be very convenient too, if the player knows how to use it. In Stolen Signal, for example, the Tac link is very important. It helps a lot at the end of the differnt rooms to bring the named bosses down, In the room with the shocks, for example, as soon as Curveball's armour is down, the Heavy and the shocks come very frequently and with a Tac link, you are normally able to kill him before the next Heavy spawns.
However, one Tac link in a team is enough, imo. The others should use the green one. But even with four green Sig Skills, I always check out, if it is not possible to revive one downed player with box etc. When two players go down, I press it immediately, of course.
I like helping new players through legendaries too. Communication is very useful in this case. I played with some new players (very low comm and gear scores) who had no mic or did not want to communicate. One of them observed what I did and copied it. After checking out the skills of the others, I switched to D3. He did the same and followed me and face tanked the NPCs as I did, but the shield of his non-classy set was too weak and he went down all the time. The others did not much better, the NPCs destroyed their boxes within seconds and the Survivor link did not help either - so we died. I am sure that we could have avoided this just by talking with each other. That is always the risk when playing legendaries with randoms. However, sometimes I have good luck in random matchmaking too. A few days ago, I was in a team of old veterans, apparently, Each one new exactly what to do and adjusted his set according to the situation and we did a speed run in Amherst's without talking. Very nice.
I should have been more clear on that point I was making. It was more about those who show up with them and NEVER use them throughout the whole mission. And then to make matters worse, 2 or 3 teammates go down, and they let their teammates die instead of taking 3 seconds to switch to recovery link. I'm ok with a well timed tac link. I'm quite familiar with quick links since my tactician utilizes determined on one of my AR, and coolheaded on my pistol.Originally Posted by Malacite Go to original post
I hope this clears up any confusion over this point that I was making.
I'm using reclaimer when I try to do Legendaries. I'm from the MMO world, but things do not translate well in some ways. When I drop the box, should that be on 'us' or the tank? I've worked on some excellent teams where the tank calls his primary target and then we focus fire. I've also worked with snipers who do the same. In each case when I know where the majority of return fire is going to be hitting is where I tend to drop the box. In general though, most teams aren't that organized. So your thoughts on that would be appreciated. TY.
In most legendaries (unless you build a 4 man team around a bomber tact setup) the turret does far more damage over time against NPCs anyhow - I rarely use sticky bombs unless switching to try and alpha past a pesky medic.Originally Posted by Paulbolt316 Go to original post
If I have the maths right my turret is doing an on paper (doesn't account for the various delays and accuracy of actual hits or bonuses from tact stacks or weapon talent procs, etc. boosting skillpower) 357K DPS against elites while my sticky does ~200K DPS. The bleed off my seeker setup is quiet high though certainly not a baby bleed - can wipe out multiple hard level NPCs in like 2-3 ticks or something. I don't use it that often but the frustrating thing is I usually ask if anyone is using predator before I use it - usually to no response then get the moaning 5-10 minutes later...
I've quickly adapted to playing mostly a self-sufficient setup though as way too often I encounter teams with damage dealers who can't out DPS my classified reclaimer, etc. LOL
Originally Posted by Kalimwulf Go to original post
Support station you ideally want to drop in a good position where the overlap of its area of effect highlighted in green gives good coverage of the combat area your team is working in while the box itself is as out of sight of NPCs as possible - for supporting a tank then using the various first aid options is more effective.