A new game mode with restricted Fast Travel, permadeath for ghosts, campaign goes on! | Forums

[redsept]

I was talking about fast travel on reddit, and suggested a new game mode where you only lose the ghost when he dies, campaign continues, and you can retrieve the gear from your dead ghost. I decided to post my reply here, because it fixes many problems with Ghost Mode that people are still experiencing.

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Neither is adding in options that are completely pointless.

Pointless, how?? Please tell me in what way a game mode that would make the game much more accessible by taking away many clearly visible frustrations of Ghost Mode is pointless? A Game mode that reduces unnecessary grinding, a game mode that adds a new "mission" of retrieving your gear from the fallen ghost every time you die is POINTLESS?

People would still be backing up and reloading their saves if they die even if all they lost was their character and skills.

You're pretty wrong here, just look at State of Decay 2. The characters you build up are individuals in a small team. You grow to like and respect them and don't want your best guys to die. But sometimes they do die. They become a part of the story in a much different way than the surviving humans. It actually makes a great big part of the story to be able to remember those who died. It makes the game richer in many ways.

There is a cemetery for those who have died, to remember them and think about their achievements, maybe even how they died and sacrificed their lives for the greater good. Look at the wall in the photo below, the wall behind Trump at FBI headquarters, Langley. It shows the sacrifice those individuals did. It's a very powerful background. It would be a great addition to the game, a wall of memory for the fallen ghosts. It's not a huge thing, but it would add a greater feeling of legacy and accomplishment to the game. The sacrifices of the fallen ghosts wouldn't be forgotten.


Press X on your controller to grab 'em by the...

The problem with permadeath in this game is not that you lose everything. The problem is that there's just too much potential for death by bugs or death by something stupid that shouldn't have gotten you killed.

Below are some of the many problems of the current savegame deleting permadeath in Ghost Mode we have to put up today:

- You can die from bugs. (Do you like a savegame deleting bug? Wildlands has those now.)
- You have to fetch the same guns and /or attachments over and over again IF you like the combo. (Grinding...)
- You have to do the same missions over and over again from start to finish if you don't kill the boss. (Totally unnecessary grind.)
- You can die from riding a bike reasonably slow (Even with a huge helmet on...but this I can live with.)
- The co-op session is halted when someone dies. (Won't happen in this new game mode.)
- You lose all vehicles and resources. (Gathering them again and again is grinding.)

If you lost only the ghost when you die, many irritating aspects I just listed would disappear or lose their strenght. Can anyone say I'm wrong? I'm pretty sure this would be the perfect way to play Wildlands, tense but not totally unforgiving.

[talking about fast travel...] If the developers allow the players to do it, it's not cheating. What about that is so hard to understand?

I'm not sure why you're rude... But anyways, the developers clearly overlooked this aspect of Fast Travel. You can be in a highly dangerous spot, no ammo left, nothing to fight with and have 15 guards right in the room you're supposed to go through, no cover close to the door, almost no chance of survival. No problemos amigo, teleport to safety! And this game allows it, if you haven't been detected. Inside an enemy base. With all the enemies in it. Think about it, it's more unrealistic than a Looney Toons cartoon.

Then don't fast travel. If other players being able to fast travel out of enemy bases instead of sneaking out is what you don't like about it, that's your problem and it's not up to the developers to "Fix" it. It's their game, they bought it with their money, they can play it however they damn well please and it's none of your business when they play in a way that you don't like.

Umm, so if the rules are broken it's NOT up to the developers to fix them? Sure, they're just the people who created the broken rules, why would they fix them... Isn't this the whole idea of feedback, to tell the developers what could be improved in their game? Teleporting away to safety from a certain death is silly, and this game shouldn't allow it.

It shouldn't be so difficult to deny fast travel if there is an enemy soldier closer than 50m to you. This wouldn't harm anyone, as wouldn't an option to restrict fast travel in Ghost Mode or in the game mode I'm suggesting. (Which is: only the ghost dies, campaign resumes, gear can be retrieved from the dead ghost.) Getting stuck in a rock etc. is the only hard part in this equation, so there would have to be a possibility to respawn about 5 feet away.

The reason I'm writing a lot about this is that Wildlands is a great game, and it could be the best it can be with just a few easy tweaks!!

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This should be the set of yes/no options for main campaign:


1) Permadeath for ghost: Y/N (You lose your ghost & skills BUT campaign progress & resources & vehicles remain)
-->1.2) Gear & medals remain when ghost dies: Y/N
----> 1.2.1) Gear & medals can only be found & retrieved from dead ghosts backpack: Y/N

2) Only one primary weapon: Y/N

3) Realistic reloading mechanics: Y/N

"Wait at a safehouse for X number of hours" option should be always on. Maybe by pressing button X at the safehouse door? I'd like it in so I can use the night-time for sneaky missions and daytime for other stuff.

All of these options should be very easy to put in the game, and they would absolutely raise the re-playability and feeling of tension in Wildlands campaign mode to new heights. It would make the game much more dynamic and less linear, especially when your ghost dies. It would force the player to adapt to new situations with a rookie ghost. It would add the mission to retrieve your gear if you die. What is there not to like about this suggestion?

A win-win situation the way I see it.

[Kean_1]

The problem with Ghost Mode for me is that it locks all of the other features many of us had been asking for behind permadeath. Move all of these components over to the main campaign as options and that would make quite a few of us happy. ....or make PD an option in GM so those who don't like the option don't have to be forced into it.

There have been a lot of ideas to modify GM including the one you brought up. Personally, I'm not interested in trying to change the core GM experience because there are also those who like it the way it is. .....but I also want access to the features as options which is what most had asked for when they requested those components be added.

As for restricting fast travel, I've had to use it on a couple of occasions just to get myself out of potential deaths caused by glitches and/or quirks in the gameplay (e.g. being stuck between rocks). In either case, nothing will prevent someone from quitting the game, turning off their system at that particular point, etc. to prevent a PD. ......or backup their files like I do. Personally, I don't think another restriction like that to make the experience more frustrating for some folks is the answer.

Your reasoning to restrict FT also seems very specific for a scenario that is likely very rare. How many times is someone going to find themselves in a situation with no ammo, surrounded by a dozen or more enemies, undetected with no hope of an exit? Chances are most would have made sure to gear up prior to putting themselves in harms way like that. ....not to mention that again, there are ways they can already bypass that problem without having to FT although more inconvenient.

I do know that there are varying opinions on what people want from this mode including those who actually like it the way it is. Tough call to alter that experience while trying to keep most happy especially now that the mode is established.

[redsept]

I do know that there are varying opinions on what people want from this mode including those who actually like it the way it is. Tough call to alter that experience while trying to keep most happy especially now that the mode is established.

If Ghost Mode isn't revised, it would be pretty darn easy to just bring permadeath into main campaign in the way I described it, so only the ghost dies, but the game continues with a rookie level 1 ghost. And since Ghost Mode options are probably being brought to the main campaign mode, this would be the right timing for this move anyways.

It would be the game mode with the tension of Ghost Mode and the continuity of the main campaign. I always liked Wildlands, but death had no meaning at all. I made the game a little bland, as the tension found in games like Clancy's Rogue Spear was gone. Losing valuable soldiers was always a big hit, but it made the game feel alive, it had soul in it. I was invested in keeping my team alive.

And in Wildlands you get to make your own character! You create the character and traits according to your liking and strategies you use. You really don't want to lose your unique ghost, and this brings the much needed tension to this game! Clancy's books are all about tension, no? But Ghost Mode goes a little overboard with the deletion of the whole savegame.

Just a few tweaks more and we have the game Wildlands deserves to be!

[Kean_1]

If Ghost Mode isn't revised, it would be pretty darn easy to just bring permadeath into main campaign in the way I described it, so only the ghost dies, but the game continues with a rookie level 1 ghost. And since Ghost Mode options are probably being brought to the main campaign mode, this would be the right timing for this move anyways.

Curious..... I get the idea behind the dropped gear (so you don't have to grind for all of it again), but what do you do about the lost skills? A player would still need to grind for all those skill points, bonus medals and resources, right?

[Paladinrja]

Gawd.. enough about more stupid restrictive game modes. Every time they add another one, I'm forced to play in a way I DON'T LIKE AND DON'T WANT TO! -- Just to chase down items and gear, locked to those damn modes!

Enough already. Just ask for "options". Like, why does every idea have to be mode of it's own? -- You have 3 save slots in normal. Just ask for options there and then everyone can play how they want and chase down the same pool of items.

That way, if you enjoy finding interesting ways to bash your silly head against a brick-wall. I'm not forced to join you and feel like an idiot in the process.

[redsept]

Curious..... I get the idea behind the dropped gear (so you don't have to grind for all of it again), but what do you do about the lost skills? A player would still need to grind for all those skill points, bonus medals and resources, right?

You would lose your unique ghost and obviously his skills.

You would level up and receive skill points for the rookie ghost just by scouting and killing enemies, just as you do now, nothing changes on that part. No big need to hunt medals or skill points if you don't want to. You can, but you don't have to.

Resources & vehicles wouldn't go away, they would be available to the new rookie ghost, just as it goes in the real world.

[RedCeII]

Personally, if I had my way, Ghost Mode wouldn’t be Perma-Death, but instead it’d differ from the normal Campaign in the following ways:

1. Fast-Travel would only be possible to & from Safe Houses, and only ones you’ve already discovered.

2. Safe Houses can be entered, and doing so allows you to Fast Travel or wait until a specified time of day.

3. No auto-save; saving would have to be done manually at a Safe House.

4. No health-regen; health bars from Ghost War are used.

5. All other realism-additions from Ghost Mode are retained.

[Kean_1]

Personally, if I had my way, Ghost Mode wouldn’t be Perma-Death, but instead it’d differ from the normal Campaign in the following ways:

1. Fast-Travel would only be possible to & from Safe Houses, and only ones you’ve already discovered.

2. Safe Houses can be entered, and doing so allows you to Fast Travel or wait until a specified time of day.

3. No auto-save; saving would have to be done manually at a Safe House.

4. No health-regen; health bars from Ghost War are used.

5. All other realism-additions from Ghost Mode are retained.

....add a change or removal of the auto-pickup of ammo from dead enemies and I'd be on board with that. ....still would like all things as options though.

[redsept]

3. No auto-save; saving would have to be done manually at a Safe House.

Nr. 3 I disagree with. Saving should be constant as it is now. Having to go somewhere to save the game is too much like Resident Evil 1 in 1996. Outdated game design, doesn't work in most games.

1. Fast-Travel would only be possible to & from Safe Houses, and only ones you’ve already discovered.
2. Safe Houses can be entered, and doing so allows you to Fast Travel or wait until a specified time of day.
4. No health-regen; health bars from Ghost War are used.
5. All other realism-additions from Ghost Mode are retained.

I agree with 1, 2, 4, 5, good ideas! Especially number 1 & 2!!

Combine these with my original idea of losing the ghost and his skills when he dies, and then continue the game with a level 1 rookie ghost and go fetch your gear from the fallen ghost. Resources and vehicles are there for your rookie to use.

Btw! A rookie might need the resources more than an experienced ghost, so you might want to hold on to them in case your ghost dies. This introduces a new perspective to the game, you don't always become stronger and stronger like in the main campaign, but don't lose the resources like in current Ghost Mode. You have to plan in advance, how to beat the campaign in a smart way, not wasting any resources if not necessary...!

[Halmeth]

I don't like fast travel either; we should be able to call for extraction and wait for the helo to arrive. That would be more cool and realistic.