Shoulder bash. How is it balance? | Forums

[Phlegmatic7]

Do you know, Ubisoft, shoulder bash of warden is the only move in all game than can not be full punished. You also do not have a full option to avoid this move. I write "full", because it's 100% 50/50 mechanic. I consider myself quite an experienced player and understand something about this game. So in order:

1) If you try to dodge shoulder bash, you will get: a) feint and GB. OR b) Fully charged bash and 40 dmg from heavy top.
2) If you try to dodge with attack (assassins) you will get: a) feint and parry. OR b) Fully charged bash and 40 dmg from heavy top. Because of hyperarmor.
3) If you try to wait of Fully charged shoulder bash you will get: a) Just cancel. Because he can see you just wait. OR b) Normal shoulder bash and double lights.
4) If you try to make a roll you will get: Fully charged bash and 40 dmg from heavy top.

Playing against the warden, all your pathetic attempts to counteract the shoulder bash are useless. You will get destroyed by it, because you haven`t option to dodge it, not to mention to punish it. This is a only character in the entire game who doing things like this. Most of my ranked game spend like this. Wardens use only shoulder bash moves, thats all. No single lights, no heavy feint, just spam this ******* move.

Before of rework, you also couldn`t full punish shoulder bash, but Ubi think that this is not enough OP, and they makes it more OP. Great job.

I did not want to insult anyone, I respect Ubisoft for what they do, but at the moment this character is completely broken.

[DALT11]

Couldn't agree with you anymore on this, and I have no idea how the community just sits idly by while it's still in the game.... Probably because everyone uses Warden now because it takes no thought or skill to use. No matter the case, with the new rework, Warden will always hit the shoulder bash charged or not. And it's basically just a 50 50 chance whether or not you guess correctly, and even if you do you can't punish nearly as hard as you should. They should just rework Warden all over again because the character has so many problems. Actually, let me rephrase that, the shoulder bash has so many problems with it. COMMUNITY! WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU??? NONE OF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS?!?!?

[Neon_WiDoW]

Hey conq bash seems broken why not just give warden a better version of it?

Seriously its like ubi doesn't listen to balancing feedback. They get that bashes dont have hard counters or punishments and yet they just slap them onto reworked heros to make them into one trick ponies.

Its not something that they can defend for being "balanced."

I mean everyone has had issues with conq bash since it came out and then they just slap it onto reworked heros without fully testing it. Shugokis dodge range is so pathetically small you have to hit it in a perfect window or else your screwed. Even then if you dodge it what are you suppose to do? Follow it up with your even more pathetic guard break range? A light? You cant use a heavy because he will already be out of the bash and ready to parry it.

Its making ubisofts balancing team look like an absolute joke when they add one move that has no downside, can be spammed without consequence, and is feintable. It just kinda shows that they dont really know how to balance moves in general if they are ok with it not having any downside or ways to punish people for it.

Then look at valks sweep. Easy to dodge, punish, read. I mean they just go back and forth. One move should be good at everything. And another just trash.

[Klingentaenz3r]

ah man, you guys are a piece of work. *sigh*

So, as a Warden main and since we are in Combat & Strategy and not in General Discussion nor Suggestions & Feedback do you actually want information on how to deal with the shoulderbash or do you just want to continue to rant over how OP you find that move?

I mean don't get me wrong. The current shoulderbash is pretty powerful and I also pledged and liked to actually have more swordmanship options as of now rather than having shoulderbash so strongly emphazised. And I also see where the shoulderbash is troublesome (charged is a bit too easy and comfortable to land in my opinion) and would also suggest to have a better look at it to fine tune it, however the shoulderbash kit is not nearly as impossible to deal with as you guys try to make it. It has clearly its openings for punish opportunities. To me it even emphazises a more dynamic game play in general.
Also to me it seems that its combat dynamic and its options is sth that might be needed to oppose that regarding of what is coming our way with Marching Fire (I really hope you guys keep that in mind).

So if you are actually willing to listen & learn then I and perhaps also others can try to outlay some of your possibilites in a hopefully well reflected way. Otherwise I wouldn't want to waste my time to write sth up.

Note that I also play Highlander, Shugoki, Orochi, Aramusha, Cent and some Nobu and seldomly some Raider and PK for references of different perspectives. Maybe you guys could state as well what you play and why and in what way you have troubles with the shoulderbash with that class you currently use.

[RLTygurr]

People say similar things about Highlander's Kick/grab combo being a "perfect" 50/50, but it isn't. There IS counter play to the shoulder bash, it's called predicting and reacting.

No it isn't easy, and yes it is too powerful as of right now simply because you can feint a fully charged shoulder bash within 100ms of movement. That needs to go immediately.

A lot of wardens nowadays are so focused on using their shoulder bash and nothing else that they'll just turtle, parry anything you throw at them, or dodge into shoulder bash mixups. It's not exactly a technical style of play, it's very simple and very boring.

Especially with faster characters, throwing lights when you think a Warden will forward dodge into his shoulder bash is really one of your best methods of dealing damage unless you simply predict correctly and get a free gb from his missed shoulder bash. Wardens are a lot more comfortable using the shoulder bash now that it has more options (still not certain why Ubi decided to buff the shoulder bash when it was the reason people hated Warden in the first place), so use that to your advantage.

Throw lights, random gbs, things that are going to screw up a Warden's mojo, anything that can make him react can make him be punished. If you use a heavy, he can either block it for chip damage and allow you to continue your chain, parry it (punishable if you feint-gb), or dodge into shoulder bash (punishable if you feint-dodge the shoulder bash-gb). There ARE options, it's just not easy in the slightest.

Do I think Warden is OP? No. Not at all. Do I think Warden needs to be tuned a little more for balance? Definitely.

In terms of someone saying they made him strong in order to deal with new characters coming in Marching Fire, this makes no sense. Why make one character so much stronger than the existing cast just to be competitive against the new characters coming in a month and a half? 4 characters compared to the other 17 in the game doesn't make much sense.

[Phlegmatic7]

I post it in Combat & Strategy just because i dont know where it should be.I just want Ubisoft to fix the balance
You did not answer my arguments about thing, that this is 50/50 mechanic. Also, you did not bring your arguments to the fact that it can be 100% punished like any other move of any character. It's just demagogy

[Buggy.Blaster]

well, it feels like a 50-50 and i really don't like that. And if you say dodge roll away to avoid it thats ********. there should not be a class that u literally have to roll dodge away to avoid the attack. so whats the better way to 100% react to it? maybe you can explain the way to react properly to this.some classes can't really.

[DALT11]

What a surprise… A warden main doesn't find it that hard to deal with... there's many different ways they could fix it but in the current state, it is very broken and no other character has any move anything like it, except for maybe lawbringer and Conquerer. Even at that, they cant charge it so that even if the opponent moves they get punished even harder. And powerful shouldn't be a word for any move. It should be "balanced." If Ubi leaves the move in, before long a lot of people will only play Warden and they'll lose the player base like they did before. No question.
.

[DefiledDragon]

Wardens shoulder bash "can't be punished"? What? Have any of you ever fought Conqueror? Wardens shoulder bash can be dealt with in the following ways.

Dodge it and GB for a free side heavy/wall splat/ledge/spike etc...
Use a dodge attack if your character has one
Hit him with a light while he's charging it

[Phlegmatic7]

Maybe you`ll read 1st post? You cant dodge it: 2) If you try to dodge with attack (assassins) you will get: a) feint and parry. OR b) Fully charged bash and 40 dmg from heavy top. Because of hyperarmor.