Shaman Light Buffs and Uninteruptible Predator's Mercy | Forums

[mena10ss]

I simply can't believe this. You guys are so incompetent that it's frustrating. Cadeau's dumba*ss keeps calling me a liar for whatever mentally handicapped reason, while the other morons can't seem to get through their thick skull that I don't want the ******* move buffed, just altered and DEBUFFED. Jesus, do any of you know how to read?

[DFQN1]

Let's make it fair then:
If we give Shaman hyperarmor on Predator's Mercy, the damage needs to be nerfed. (it's way too high anyways)
Let's look at it in detail. The move itself is 16 frames fast which equals around 500 ms. And with fast I don't mean the whole animation. Only the time window where you are able to dodge the attack. Furthermore at the end of the attack you can't even dodge anymore, so you lose further 50 ms for that window. Makes something like 450 ms. Which can be feinted and is guaranteed after a gb (only if the opponent is bleeding of course).
We have a ~450 ms fast attack which can be feinted, is guaranteed after a gb, heals a small amount of hp and regenerates stamina completely. Total damage of 50.
She gets hyperarmor, she gets a damage nerf. Simple. A decrease to 20 dmg at least.

[Corentin10111]

You're so ****ing stupid that i'm gonna stop arguing with you, Stop trying to lie to make it seem you won the arguement

The story of mena10ss's life...

[mena10ss]

Fu*king thank you DFQN1. That's the point I've been trying to make all along!! As for Corentin, do you have anything to contribute besides talking sh*t? Why don't you go back to whatever hole you crawled out of.

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think that it should still deal about 35-40 damage with hyperarmor at the end, it's still a core move like valk's sweep, so while 50 is too much, 20 is very low. I would also take out the stamina regen completely from the bite, but I would also add an interrupt option with the feint button during the bite (mostly usable if the shaman realizes that two shugokis about to hit her with their fully charged unblockables if she keeps biting and decides to jump off). However, with this change, it is a most to reduce the damage the victim suffers during the bite from external attackers, it would be quite unfair if the enemies could kill them without even timing correctly.

As for the lights, maybe a small damage buff wouldn't hurt. If they would really nerf the bite's damage, then I think it should worth a try to make her first lights deal 10 normal damage, and her second lights deal 6 bleed damage, the shaman indeed lacks options to apply bleed (again, that's not a bad thing in the current situation, but some small things might be useful if the bite is reworked). The only question is, how would increased lights interact with her pred hunger which makes them guaranteed?

As for Raven's bile, I think it's fine the way it is, it's still a 500ms softfeint, it has good chances to land with mixups.


I would also patch out the zone on heavy punishes on most characters, it's really unfair on some that they can get the damage they do on a heavy parry (especially unfair in the berserker's case, agressive heroes shouldn't have stronger than avarege parry punishes while some counterattacker has that low).

[mena10ss]

Good God, finally someone who has an honest critique rather than just screaming out their opinion and insulting others. Thank you RolandVermund, and I actually completely agree with everything you stated. I didn't even think of a canceling mechanism, but that sounds like a good idea. I also like your suggestion that the second hit of the light does bleed damage rather than normal damage. I believe the shaman indeed has few ways to apply bleed, and that would help significantly without the need to change any functions to Raven's Bile.

As for the zone punish idea, I think that may be more useful to be posted on another thread specifically for zone attacks.

[Gemoroda]

It's time to stop hating on shamans while letting other assassins have better damage and combos. There are three things that need to be addressed.

The first being that shaman's double light attack damage is by far the most pathetic out of any assassin in terms of damage. With no gear stats, two light attacks in the same direction do 15 damage! Meanwhile every other assassin has bonuses that make them do more damage or have superior technique:

• Gladiator does 15 with one light and has long reach for compensation
• Berserker does 15 with one light axe hit (even though shaman attacks with an axe herself) and has uninterruptible combos
• Peacekeeper does 13 initially, but because she has good chains. She can switch directions with lights extremely fast and can get a second light for 15. (shaman can't switch light directions fast)
• Orochi does 15 with one attack, not including the guaranteed second top light if the first hits, making the damage 21
• Shinobi is the worst, with fast light attacks where if the first light hits, (14 damage) then the second hits guaranteed with 10 damage, making it 24 damage with SICKLES.

Shaman definitely needs a light attack buff as to match the other assassins with double hits.

Next I want to address Predator's Mercy. It is absolutely infuriating that Predator's Mercy, the highest damage dealing attack, can not only be interrupted by opponents, but also your own teammates. The animation takes almost 3 seconds to actually 'bite', rather than being instantaneous. Shaman needs interruptible on the bite as to stand a better chance against multiple opponents and against friendlies seeking to stop the animation. This I would say is the most important of the three I am suggesting.

Lastly, would be Raven's Bile. Shaman relies largely on bleed damage, but having Raven's Bile only on the first heavy attack or at the end of a chain prevents more fluid combat with shaman. Although you can still perform a bleeding hit after a deflect or zone attack, I think shaman should be able to perform Raven's Bile after any heavy attack, much like Peacekeeper's ability to dagger feint at a heavy startup. This is the least concerning of the three, but would definitely be a great addition for her combat style

I know how ubisoft can fix this. And im ok with it. Ubisoft should give her an unblockable with an undodgable effect oppener thats allso soft cancelable and be a finisher two. Make it be a light attack and deal 40 dmg. If the opponent has bleed tho, this light becomes 1 shot kill and full health restore.

I mean its not as good as what you asked for but its more easy this way time and miney wise and allmost as good.

But no. Seriously now dude! What you said was... kind of rude based on for honor standards these days. She has 2 soft cancels already, shes fast, she has a few confirned moves (second light, pounce) and a super sayan mode called trance *bleed. That not only is easy to apply as shaman, from what i rmember that bleed doesnt even need to come from shaman. Ca be from a trap or an ally... so do the math

[mena10ss]

I am actually unsure what you mean by what you suggested being a light attack with 40 damage? One shot and full health restore? That sounds like it would make shaman more broken. Considering how much grief I have been getting for just mentioning uninterruptible and nerfing Predator's Mercy, I don't think people will like that idea.

As for bleed application, I don't believe it's easy as everyone thinks. Sure, Predator's Mercy works with bleed from other sources, but I am talking about making the shaman a more 1v1 capable fighter. I know she is already good enough in ganking opponents and don't want any buffs with that in mind. I just think that what RolandVermund and I are proposing makes sense for single fights.

Just to recap for people who got lost on the bickering in this thread, here's the proposition thus far:
Shaman gets her Predator's Mercy nerfed to 40 instead of 50 damage, but gains uninterruptible on it. This is to prevent opponents and friendlies from interrupting it since it takes so long for the animation to actually 'bite'. I initially proposed that shaman's light attacks should be slightly buffed as they are weaker than other assassins, and have Raven's Bile be usable on any heavy. I mentioned the Raven's Bile because I believe that shaman needs better bleed tactics. RolandVermund had a better idea where the shaman's second light attack damage stays the same, but instead becomes bleed damage rather than normal damage. This allows for more bleeding opportunities and makes up for the low light attack damage, therefore omitting my idea to have Raven's Bile on every heavy.

Anything else anyone?

[Goat_of_Vermund]

I think that this would be fine if she wouldn't get stamina back from the bite. And maybe something with the second bite on miss to make it more punishable.

[Alustar.exe]

Shaman lights are fine. Your first strike is largely unpredictable, the second guaranteed. Not to mention it flows nicely to a heavy that can be soft feinted into a dodge strike or GB, or hard canceled into more lights.

Predators mercy is also fine. You just need to use it more wisely. Don't go for that attack off you know you have opponents around that are not engaged with other players. That's dumb. If your team if interrupting it, get better teammates.

Bottom line is, shaman is fine, in fact other assassins should be on her level, not the other way around. With her mix up game and hyper aggressive playable she is very equipped to handle most of the roster.