Member
You're really stupid if you believe Shaman needs a buff, You're obviously crying because you can't as easily kick everyones *** as you would want to. She is overall the strongest hero in the game if you ask me.
I don't get why you're crying about her 2 light combo doing low damage when she has so many other abilities to do that does 3x the amount of damage.
Her Predators mercy is stupidly OP considering that she will get a 100% hit chance if she : GB's and Throws you in any direction (No need to hit a wall), She parries a light or if you're parrying someone else. Not to mention that it's basically the Shugoki's "Demons Embrace" but with almost all bad things removed, Examples include : It's much faster, She gets a guarenteed hit if she just THROWS YOU, She gets a guarenteed if she parries a light, She doesnt take damage if she misses, She can do it instantly again if she misses, She can faint it and it restores her Stamina. The only thing that was removed was the ****ing uninterruptible which can actually be considered a buff since if a shugoki is doing the Hug in a fight he can just wailed on the other attackers while he's stuck doing the animation.
And lastly, She doesnt need more Raven bile combos, It's already easy enough for her to make you bleed. The Ravens claw is like the Peacekeeper top-light bleed attack but from any direction. And considering how freaking easy it is, The pay-off can be so freaking huge if you consider her : Get health back from ANY HIT while you're bleeding and/or the Predators mercy.
It ****ing amazes me that people like you exist, People who actually think that she needs a Buff while heroes like Lawbringer exist who are in a desperate need of a rework or Buff in my opinion.
If you would like to know all of my reasons why Shaman is OP you could read this : https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...isoft-Response . And if you do, Please re-consider your opinion on Shaman
Member
Junior Member
OK so, Cadeau bud, I think you must be high to think she is the the strongest hero in the game. Crying? Grow up kid. Sounds like you skimmed over the last few posts and then threw in your idiotic two cents. 3x the damage on other abilities? You must be joking. She does average heavy damage just like every other hero, has weak lights, and the strongest attack she has Predator's Mercy, which I already explained why that was a problem about 3 times already, so you can go back and read it. I like how you talk about how Predator's Mercy is so OP, yet I am still not hearing anything about how the shaman actually makes others bleed.
Newsflash for everyone: PK has a massive bleed moveset for some reason, even though she doesn't have any perks like with shaman or nobushi that allow for more damage or other extras. So now that I am asking for shaman to have a proper moveset with regards to bleed and uninterruptible, all of a sudden it's triggering everyone because I am actually making sense.
Now for what you said on your thread:
You complain about headbutt canceling and that the orochi doesn't have it, but storm rush for orochi can now be feinted AND has UNDODGEABLE properties.
You can complain about headbutt bouncing people off the wall when plenty of heroes actually have that ability too, so now it sounds like you're nitpicking.
My favorite is you complaining about shaman because you claim she is too fast and gets to zones faster. I don't even know what to say to that it's such a stupid remark. She's a damn assassin! of course she can move fast! Every other assassin moves just as fast, or maybe you're blind that shinobi can double their sprint speed with an ability, making them the fastest heroes in the game!
Complaining about her having an unblockable? Seriously? You know that doesn't force players to parry in the slightest. If you know the shaman is going to release it, all you seriously have to do is dodge. After the warden rework, they have the same (top) unblockable as shaman now, but apparently you only feel like targeting shaman with your bs. You clearly must be new to the game.
Her long guarddbreak throw? Warlord pal. Moving on.
Lastly, Predator's Hunger. I am guessing you mentioned this before the shaman got range and tracking nerfed, so I am not going to bother trying to explain why that is no longer a concern.
Literally every single thing you mentioned, I can find a thousand more ways to show that shinobi is by far the most broken assassin, but let's jump on the hate shaman bandwagon because we don't have the intelligence to see that shaman is less cheap than shinobi. Everyone is making such a damn fuss over a small light buff I am proposing, better Raven's Bile combos, and uninterruptible on Predator's Mercy even though I said that you can nerf the damage for compensation. Apparently that's still too triggering for everyone.
There you have it boy. A complete list why you cannot accurately describe a characters' potential
Member
You're really stupid huh? I said in the post that the fast speed isnt as big of a problem but everything else it just adds to the complete clusterfudge that is Shaman.
And the long throw distance is still better in 2v1 if you're playing Shaman than Warlord. Let's say for example you're at a ledge with 2 people, First lets see the situation as Warlord : You GB 1 one the opponents and then push them off, But the problem now is that you're ON the edge so the 2nd person just pushes you off. Now lets see it as Shaman, You gb and throw the person off the edge. You're not as close to the edge and you have a lower chance of getting instakilled.
The Headbutt canceling doesnt get justified just because another hero now can cancel their version of the attack, It's still stupid. The Headbutt bouncing of wall thing isnt available for "Plenty of heroes". Those that i can think of are (These may be wrong) : Shaman, Conq (Specific one), Valk, Nobushi, Cent, Shinobi? and i think Warden. I'm not counting Highlander since if you get kicked it's already a guarenteed Heavy. So that's about 6-7 heroes out of the 18 heroes.
Again the Unblockable isnt as big of a problem if she didnt already have all of these other attacks, The unblockable is a way to force some turtling heroes out of Turtling. And that is just plainly stupid since Turtling is often 1 of the few ways to deal with a Shaman that loves to attack.
I'm not sure what you're talking about in the start but Shaman getting HP back from any hit while you're bleeding is not fair or balanced at all since it's so easy to get someone to bleed.
I also like how you only talked about the things where i could be seen as wrong and not anything else. You didnt mention 90% of the post. What about all of the ups of the Predators Mercy? What about her Ravens claw coming from any direction? Answer these questions if you're making "Sense".
If you're too lazy to go back to my post and check what on the Predators mercy thing again, i will list it here : Predators mercy is like the Shugoki Demons embrace but it is : Faster, Tracks, Restores stamina, Can be interrupted, She doesnt take damage if she misses, She can do it instantly if she misses, She gets a free hit on it if she GB's and throws you without you touching a wall or if she Parries a light (Which Shugoki Cant do) and It can be fainted
I like how you're trying to miss-lead anyone reading this to thinking i'm in the wrong. You sound like a ****ing politic, just lying and lying to seem like you're right. So i'm just simply asking you to actually go through my post and answer the question i had and dont just shift the blame to another character. Shinobi isnt even that strong. Kind of funny how you think a much weaker Assassin is better than the best one.
If you could do what i asked? Then Congratz!
https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...isoft-Response
Junior Member
Lol really pal? I'm lying? Now we hit pinnacle stupidity. I actually understand your argument about the shaman throw, yet the chances of that actually happening in match are so small that it rarely happens rather than you suggesting being the norm.
Apparently you're stupid enough to say that that the headbutt wall splatter isn't justified only because 6-7 heroes have it??? You literally just contradicted yourself, because if shaman was unique then I would understand, but 6-7 heroes have it and apparently that still isn't enough for you to see that as justified?? Sorry pal, that doesn't cut it.
As for the unblockable, i still don't see what the problem is with that considering how you mentioned highlander can wall splatter and get a guaranteed heavy unblockable from a kick.
For the shaman healing portion, I keep explaining it and nobody seems to read: Shaman bleed tactics only cause 1 STACK of bleed damage unless your opponent is stupid enough to let you get more stacks in. You heal rather small amounts and against a good opponent, doesn't mean squat. I already mentioned this before but apparently you didn't quite get it. Go back and read what I said about high level 1v1's and you'll see that shaman can't easily get people to bleed as you think she can.
And yes, having Raven's Bile multi-directional is a GOOD thing. People keep comparing her to PK even though PK doesn't have any benefits for making people bleed like nobushi or shaman (which i stated earlier). Raven's bile being multi-directional provides some compensation for shaman's short range and few abilities that make people bleed. As for Predator's Mercy, again, it is not as strong as everyone thinks. People complain about being able to launch it again after a miss, when you know that anybody who actually KNOWS shaman's moveset won't fall for multiple launches if they were able to dodge the first one.
Lazy? I read what you said about shugoki but it felt so irrelevant that i didn't bother mentioning it. I explained it almost 10 times i believe why Predator's Mercy isn't as op as everyone thinks it is. Unlike shugoki, you have to bleeding first, which is already a problem for shaman as her bleeding abilities don't give very much bleed stack. If you are bleeding, most people just turtle or back up (like i said earlier again) and just wait a few seconds for the bleed to wear off or just dodge Predator's Mercy. Oh, and it doesn't one shot if shaman is at low health either. I don't see any problem with it's current abilities as it is far too hard to land the damn thing against anyone competent. I think people having a problem with that move just don't know how to dodge or they don't know her moveset well enough. Since i obviously play as shaman, going up against other shamans, whether players or lvl 3 bots, the only way they get predator's mercy on me is if they get a guardbreak right after any bleeding effects. It's almost never landed when done without a guardbreak because it is far too predictable. So while you are sitting here boo-hooing about Predator's Mercy being too op, for the last time, IT IS NOT.
Lastly, "shinobi isn't even that strong".... Are you you stupid or just blind? Shinobi does massive damage on lights and heavies plus bleed stacks, has an uninterruptible kick in MID-AIR, can pull you in from long range and ledge you, fast dodges and fast heavy cancels, etc. I'm not shifting the blame and I'm not here to say nerf shinobi, but asking for shaman's bite to have uninterruptible at the cost of damage and having better bleed combos I think is pretty damn reasonable.
Senior Member
Roland, you want something PK is better at? Bleed abilities, just like I slightly mentioned in the last post. PK can cause massive bleed build up on guardbreak. Shaman can't unless you waste a heavy opener in order to dagger hit, not mention the actual dagger itself does minuscule damage and only one stack of bleed damage. Just one stack dissipates very quickly, which pretty much means you either bite in a few seconds or they will stop bleeding, giving the opponent an obvious sign to just start backpedaling in anticipation of a bite until bleed wears off. PK can bleed dagger hit feint on any heavy, granted since the last patch it can only be in one direction. I'm not sure if PK gets a guaranteed bleed dagger hit after a successful heavy lands, but it's fast enough that it's worth mentioning. Once again, Shaman can only dagger hit at a heavy opener or chain finisher, and dagger hits do minuscule damage. Making someone else bleed with shaman essentially comes down to trying to deflect them, as her other means of bleed tactics are not enough. The zone dagger feint is slower than PK to the point people can parry it, the heavy opener dagger feint has no reach like PK does, as PK jabs forward, while Shaman jabs at a shorter reach. Lastly, the dagger hit at the end of a chain is far too unreliable and people don't often get a chance to even finish a chain as a shaman as the heavy is too slow and you can't dagger feint in the middle of the chain. Anything else?
Well, since the pk can't get anything from a bleed, as you already mentioned, causing bleed is nothing more than normal damage. Granted, she deals more than shaman from a simple gb, but that's the only situation where she deals more than the shaman. As a damage type, bleed is worthless for pk (well, in 4v4, you can serve as a waitress for a shaman if you have one as a team mate), so I wouldn't consider her stronger on this field. The dagger cancel of the pk comes from the same direction, so it doesn't really matter how fast it is, it is parried very often too, the shaman's is far better. Maybe a back dodge beats the shaman raven bile, but since she can also guardbreak softfeint a heavy, I don't think that dodging backward is a good idea against her (especially if you are bleeding, the bite is infamous about beating back dodges and even rolls). And the last light after a chain finisher might be slow on shaman, but I wouldn't consider it a disadvantage either, the pk doesn't have any kind of light after heavy kind chains at all (she gets a guaranteed light bleed called deep gouge after landing a heavy, but her overall damage still remains slow with it). But even if any of the things mentioned would make anything, you surely don't believe that a bit better tracking on a softfeints compensates for an unblockable chain finisher, a feintable jump attack with omnidirection, for the headbutt/bite, for the bloodtrance and for the far faster dodge attacks that can be chained together. I don't think that the shaman is the strongest at all, a berserker would probably beat the hell out of her with all the hyperarmor, but the pk really doesn't have anything important over her (she had obviously better damage before the nerfrework, but that is gone).
Again, I don't think the shaman's bite is hard to get, and you only need one per round. First, you can softfeint any heavies into guardbreaks, which means you force everyone into a 50/50 with the unblockable (basically you either stand still or get guardbroken), it's quite questionable if you can hit her out with a light. You can also dodge out of the finishers, right into the pred mercy if you want to. You may also force preemptive dodges by dodging around, most people will try to dodge if they see it and bleeding (if you think they won't because they expect this, well, just jump, it is really hard to dodge if you mix it up). Last but not least, you have a great psychological advantage during the bleed, the opponent will probably think that you are about to jump, so you might get more attacks more easily (I don't play shaman, but since she is an improved peacekeeper, I think I would use these as some sort of beginner ways to bite, I am sure you already developed better mixups then these). If you want any kind of buff, then it really shouldn't deal as much damage as it does. 50 damage+self heal on a move is not avarege, no other assassin has a 50 damage move (maybe the orochi has with the heavy deflect followup, but well, it's doubtful that it will ever land).
Member
Junior Member
Corentin, sounds like someone is salty they can't come up with any counterarguments after I laid out those points on that last post. Unlike Roland who actually makes a fair point, why don't you just go away? You sound like an angsty teenager, assuming stupid shi*t about someone you don't even know. Is that how you win your arguments? You start insulting the other person because you can't come up with anything? Good luck in life, kid. If you believe that putting hyper armor on a bite with REDUCED DAMAGE as an IDEA is moronic, then I wouldn't want to see any of your suggestions. Since Roland is the only one actually making good points instead of throwing a tantrum like you are, I will address him from this point.
Roland, you make av very good point about PK and I at least respect that you said shaman isn't the strongest, unlike some other idiot. You also make a fair point about shaman mixups, but either I am reading wrong, or it sounds like you think I'm saying a want a buff on the bite. That is not the case. I would welcome a debuff if it meant having hyper armor on the bite. That is the point I have been trying to make all this time, and apparently this is something so outrageous, they can't even bear the thought of it. I still firmly believe that would be an improvement. As for my Raven's Bile idea, ok I can see where your argument stands, and I would say I am less motivated on that idea. I will, however say that I still believe in a small buff to shaman light attacks, regardless of her mixups, as she relies on getting light attacks in for her mixups as you yourself stated. With the amount of light damage she does know, I would say that it's still a little weak, but hey that could be just me, hence making this thread and the whole charade here.
Senior Member
Member
