Add positive and negative frames on attacks already. | Forums

[AzureSky.]

Really, the only thing you need to do proper balance in this game is to add negative and positive frames on attacks (based on if they blocked or not, also the attack)

this is the only fighting game that doesn't have that, if a dev see this watch tekken 7, it's nearly identical to for honor, the only difference is the camera view, but you have all the types of moves there and also 3 defenses (high, mid and low)

yeah it will take time to add them, but it will be worth it in the end cause you can balance the game properly after that and also it increases skill ceiling by a lot without making the games of low skilled players a nightmare.

[Devils-_-legacy]

Really, the only thing you need to do proper balance in this game is to add negative and positive frames on attacks (based on if they blocked or not, also the attack)

this is the only fighting game that doesn't have that, if a dev see this watch tekken 7, it's nearly identical to for honor, the only difference is the camera view, but you have all the types of moves there and also 3 defenses (high, mid and low)

yeah it will take time to add them, but it will be worth it in the end cause you can balance the game properly after that and also it increases skill ceiling by a lot without making the games of low skilled players a nightmare.

Tekken is nowhere near like for honor lol

[AzureSky.]

Tekken is nowhere near like for honor lol

actually it is, you have 3d movement in all of the directions, 3 guards and more complexity, but in the basic sense it's the same, the problem with for honor is that is really simple.

Thats' why im asking to add frame advantages and negative frames, cause right now the balance is in a really bad spot.

[Devils-_-legacy]

This game is nothing like tekken 7 as imo it's still a 2.5d brawler. I only really play objective modes.

But Unless I'm mistaken i thought we did we just call it diffrent things? positive and negative frames on block are counted from the attacker's side, right? A negative frame count means the recovery animation leaves you unable to deal with an opponent's counter provided it requires fewer frames to execute than the amount of frames you left yourself with when the attack was blocked/missed(like Shugs hug). Positive frame count refers to a blocked attack that allows the attacker to return to a neutral state in a certain number of frames before the opponent can leave blockstun and retaliate.

[AzureSky.]

This game is nothing like tekken 7 as imo it's still a 2.5d brawler. I only really play objective modes.

But Unless I'm mistaken i thought we did we just call it diffrent things? positive and negative frames on block are counted from the attacker's side, right? A negative frame count means the recovery animation leaves you unable to deal with an opponent's counter provided it requires fewer frames to execute than the amount of frames you left yourself with when the attack was blocked/missed(like Shugs hug). Positive frame count refers to a blocked attack that allows the attacker to return to a neutral state in a certain number of frames before the opponent can leave blockstun and retaliate.

They are told from the attacker perspective, for example if they added this to raider top heavy they should give it some + frames, take in mind the frame advantage is something that is small enough that can make a difference if 2 attacks go at the same time, but don't stop some actions from happening (you should never get a free light attack after blocking a really slow heavy attack for example)

this would fix some things like light spam on console since after a blocked light you get a negative frame that makes your next action a little bit slower, so if the other character uses their light attack they will have "their turn" to act.

This is a basic feature in most fighting games, but it would fix a lot of issues with the current system that uses the same frame advantages and negatives for most of the moves.

This also is a better fix for the previous turtle meta (that still happens on top ranked games) since it adds a layer of knowledge of each attack small enough to take advantage if you are a experienced player but good for new players too. (since for them the game doesn't change that much)

[Devils-_-legacy]

I dont agree with you I don't think it would work well in a 4v4 maybe if the game was only duels like tekken but I was right on the concept so I think I understand what your trying to say

[Camemberto]

I think I got the concept of of positive and negative frames, but could you still explain in detail how it would change a certain bad situation for the better? I just don't see it. How exactly would it apply and isn't it already in the game to some extent?

If I understood correctly, then:
Heavy attacks have positive frames on block, meaning you can continue attacking, before your opponent can.
Light attacks have negative frames on block, meaning your opponent, can attack first, putting you on the defense.
That is how it works right now, what part of it would you want to see changed?

[AzureSky.]

I think I got the concept of of positive and negative frames, but could you still explain in detail how it would change a certain bad situation for the better? I just don't see it. How exactly would it apply and isn't it already in the game to some extent?

If I understood correctly, then:
Heavy attacks have positive frames on block, meaning you can continue attacking, before your opponent can.
Light attacks have negative frames on block, meaning your opponent, can attack first, putting you on the defense.
That is how it works right now, what part of it would you want to see changed?

currently light attacks just reset the fight to neutral (with the only cost being stamina)

With this added you would get "your turn" after for example you blocked a orochi light attack, orochi has 500 ms attacks so he can beat most of the cast if he wants to keep attacking after that, but with negative frames if he decides to buffer the input (make it go instantly after he got blocked) he would have a small pause in the attack, making the attack of the other character faster.

This will help consoles a lot cause it reduces light spam, since they will keep losing trades if they just keep pressing buttons.

This is one of the examples, frames are used mostly to stop spamming of some moves that look safe, are fast, look unbeatable, etc. Mostly in fighting games, most of that moves have a consequence in frames, for example some moves in tekken that makes you fall to the ground for free hits have high negative frames that allow the opponent to get a launcher for a combo if they block it.