[SUGGESTION] Ubisoft, please fix Ghost mode with this simple step! | Forums

[redsept]

Ubisoft, please fix Ghost mode with this simple step: When dying, you lose all skills, but not the game progression. The operative dies but the mission goes on with another operative, who has 0 skills but mission progression is intact. You completed missions and killed enemies, why should that be reset? You just lose the operative when he dies. This is the possibility the RPG-style progression system presents to Ubisoft, will they use it?

This would be THE best game-mode for Wildlands! The fear of death would be always present, but it's not the end of all. Beatable if given time, dedication and skill (not just by getting in-game upgrades that always stay with you, even if you die). The fear of losing the created character and all skills would make things much more tense, which is perfect for a Clancy-game, no?

As there are bugs and glitches in the game, losing ALL progress due to a bug in Ghost Mode is totally unreasonable. Losing "just" a character due to a bug would be sad (or potentially funny), but bearable.

This update would give Wildlands campaign the final spark it still needs. It would change the main campaign gameplay instantly for the better, with minimal effort!


ps.
- How about the body stays where you died, and you have to get to it to get your custom gear back? And if you could bury the body out of respect, that would be sooooo cool and add immersion, emotions.
- And you would have to have a wall of honor for operatives, celebrating their contributions, with a photo, stats, favorite weapon, way of death, etc. listed. The characters would feel much more personable, and you could see everyone who contributed to the mission and how much.
- The skill tree in this mode should be open from the start, not restricted by levels, as it should be in Ghost Mode too, btw. Otherwise you will rarely get a skill that is available only at level 14-16 or beyond, if you die every now and then.

[RedCeII]

I agree that the Skill Tree shouldn’t be restricted by Level in Ghost Mode, ESPECIALLY if they think they’re going to sell Skill Points & Resources.

Otherwise, this kinda eliminates the whole point of a perma-death mode.

[Rivverrabbit]

I shared this in reply to your post in the other topic, so I want to share it here, too:

I agree with your assessment: right now, people say that death has meaning in Ghost Mode, it has consequences. But it doesn't, I don't think -- the whole world ends when you die and everything gets reset to zero. That's not a consequence, it's an inconvenience. You don't lose anything because you can get it allllll back again, in the same exact way.

However from a design perspective I think that just making your Nomad/Ghost be lost is a half measure. I think for this to truly work, all your Ghosts should be unique characters, with their own special skills and stats, and while you can customize them, who they are is locked. This would mean the skill unlock table should be shorter, with fewer items on it -- many of the options would be already unlocked, like max sync shots, and access to gear. And the trade-off would instead be that individual Ghost stats would be variable, like accuracy or bullet resistance.

The closest example I can think of is State of Decay. In that game, you have random survivors who have their own looks, and when they die, they're gone for good. Each has five or so main stats that govern stuff like shooting, melee, stamina, etc. Then they have a few traits that can be either good or bad. The traits don't change, but the stats can be improved (you can get better cardio or accuracy by playing with that character). So when you lose a character it really stings, because their death has had meaning to you. You don't want to lose your favorite person with a mix of awesome traits and stats because they truly are unique, but if you do, it's a consequence you have to live with.

The key here is that the skill unlocks need to be fewer, shorter, because going from zero to thirty is just too long a prospect, especially when you have to unlock things any Ghost should already have. To pull another example, I'd say it could be like MGSV, where you select your gear and team, choosing how advanced of a drone you want and how much ammo and how many gadgets, and then you deploy from a rally point at the cost of a certain amount of resources based on what you took. Then when you return safely to a rally point, you get experience and some resources back. If a ghost dies, deploying a new one will give you, say, a couple random ones to pick from, and you decide which you want based on their appearance or stats (also at the cost of resources).

The capstone on this design would be that each ghost has a special skill or ability that's unique to them, like an ability you'd see in one of the Ghost War classes. If the PvE ported over suppression and no healkth regen, then getting a ghost with the pointman's ability to not be suppressed might be very valuable to you. Or some of the perks would be good too, like mirror-mark (mark enemies who spot you, or mark enemies who damage you). This would further enhance the uniqueness of each ghost, while intensifying their loss.

But of course that's a pretty big overhaul. But it is actually permadeath designed from the ground up, rather than just bolting on a basic permadeath to a game that clearly wasn't designed for it.

[redsept]

I shared this in reply to your post in the other topic, so I want to share it here, too:

I agree with your assessment: right now, people say that death has meaning in Ghost Mode, it has consequences. But it doesn't, I don't think -- the whole world ends when you die and everything gets reset to zero. That's not a consequence, it's an inconvenience. You don't lose anything because you can get it allllll back again, in the same exact way.

......
But of course that's a pretty big overhaul. But it is actually permadeath designed from the ground up, rather than just bolting on a basic permadeath to a game that clearly wasn't designed for it.

Yep, it would be a big overhaul.

My original proposition is very easy to implement, you lose the character & skills when you die. Simple.

[redsept]

I agree that the Skill Tree shouldn’t be restricted by Level in Ghost Mode, ESPECIALLY if they think they’re going to sell Skill Points & Resources.

Otherwise, this kinda eliminates the whole point of a perma-death mode.

Well, this is Guerilla Warfare. Soldiers die, but the operation continues.

Spec Ops aren't alone on the battlefield, and new operatives can be sent in to continue completing the missions. Without a total restart of the whole operation. When you die, you lose your created and his skills, but it's not the end of the world.

You get a new one, who is just greener and without any special skills, which makes the game instantly harder, a real challenge. But not a out-of-fear-slow-grind like the current Ghost Mode.

[redsept]

This could be a simple option: Will you lose game progression in Ghost Mode upon death: Yes / No?

This tiny change would transform the campaign so much, into a more tense experience with the fear of death always present, especially when you have a high level character you really wish would survive! This is the perfect mood for a Clancy-game: the danger feels always present, and you really have to be careful not get killed, at all times. You want to protect your investment.

But dying wouldn't reset the campaign progression, dying would make thing more harder for a while. You want to avoid that, so you're forced into making good informed choices and use stealth as much as possible.

I think it would be THE best game-mode for Wildlands, not a slow grind like the current Ghost Mode tends to be, as you try to protect your character from making any mistakes at all. And if you lose the character and game progression due to a bug....sorry.

[JensDekkersNL]

Any compromise would do the job. I am getting a bit exhausted of it now. So I have died 4 times now. One BS explosion, two **** ups from myself (although one was a result of a flawed mechanic) and now AI standing next to me but refusing to revive me...
I literally can't be bothered killing Yuri and ****ing Polito anymore and I really can't be bothered getting every single fkin attachment again, or even just the ones you'd use like short barrels, fookin laser sights, red dots and all the other necessary stuff (as you can Imagine I am fairly triggered).

I like Ghost Mode, I like how your life matters, I like having only one gun and ''more realistic reloads'', but losing everything in a game this broken is a no go. Can it please be september already?

Just, **** you AI

Spoiler:  Show

[LoneSpymaster]

Well, this is Guerilla Warfare. Soldiers die, but the operation continues.
Spec Ops aren't alone on the battlefield, and new operatives can be sent in to continue completing the missions. Without a total restart of the whole operation. When you die, you lose your created and his skills, but it's not the end of the world.
You get a new one, who is just greener and without any special skills, which makes the game instantly harder, a real challenge. But not a out-of-fear-slow-grind like the current Ghost Mode.

Your idea can work on other games that aren’t ghost recon.

I get what you are talking about but it doesn’t work like that for GR and I will explain why.
Going to use two examples:
The first GR and GRAW : |

In the first game you could control all the soldiers you had available if one of them died you just use another one but those soldiers are generic soldiers, they do not have a purpose in the storyline, they are there to obey what the player commands in order to complete a set of missions, whoever made it or not to the end is irrelevant.

In GRAW however you are taking control of captain Scott Mitchell, he is the representation of you in the game, you are not giving him orders like in the first game, you are using Mitchell to give orders to the other Ghost’s, he is the character you play as, he has a background story now. You are the Ghost leader, you are Scott Mitchell, what happens if he dies? Well then the game is over for him and for you, because he is you. The same applies to GR2, GRAW, GRAW2, GRFS and GR Wildlands.

In Ghost Recon Wildlands you are Nomad, you decide how he looks and what gear he uses because he is you. If Nomad dies you are dying so it is impossible to continue the progress as somebody else because the Ghost you are creating is Nomad regardless.

In games like EndWar and XCOM for example, is the same story as the first GR, if the soldiers that are in the battleground died then it doesn’t matter, nobody cares the op doesn’t end in that case because you are the commander, you didn’t die your troops did.

That’s the reason why Ubisoft created character like Scott Mitchell, in order to have a character the player can play as, rather than taking control of generic soldiers.

Perma-death works as it should work, here you are not taking control of a character that can be replace Nomad is the main character, he is you. Look at it as it was something from real life, if you had to be a soldier and you died in the battlefield, then yes maybe for your teammates the op continues, but you and everything you did is lost.

Now looking it at the story perspective then it is also impossible because the Ghost’s do not have reinforcements, they do not have backup, so if one of them died or all of them then there’s nothing you can do, the op is finished as a failure.

[redsept]

I get what you are talking about but it doesn’t work like that for GR and I will explain why.

In Ghost Recon Wildlands you are Nomad, you decide how he looks and what gear he uses because he is you. If Nomad dies you are dying so it is impossible to continue the progress as somebody else because the Ghost you are creating is Nomad regardless.

In the normal co-op campaign you can get Nomad killed 100 000 000 times and he re-spawns every time. And aren't there 4 Nomads in the game at the same time (in co-op )?? So Nomad apparently has maaany twin brothers and sisters, I can't see why you couldn't create a fresh Nomad all over again from scratch.

And creating a wall of honor for the fallen ones with a picture and stats would be cool, you really would see who did the best out of your guys and gals. Who survived the longest, and of course you would try to beat that, get a character to a higher level than the previous one. It would bring a new layer of interest to the game, and the tension in battles would be much higher than in the normal campaing! Normally you just respwn -> boring. Currently the Ghost Mode -> too slow and grindy. And if you die due to a bug in the game -> rage. But the game-mode I've suggested would bring a penalty to dying, but not end the whole game.

Look at it as it was something from real life, if you had to be a soldier and you died in the battlefield, then yes maybe for your teammates the op continues, but you and everything you did is lost.

Everything I did is lost? Why? My skills are gone with the character, sure, but the enemies I've already killed, the places I've blown up, the intel I've gathered, the missions I've successfully completed...why don't they suddenly matter at all? Why is the entire campaign reset, as if nothing really even happened?

And the inventory/loot should stay with the dead body and should be recoverable.

Now looking it at the story perspective then it is also impossible because the Ghost’s do not have reinforcements, they do not have backup, so if one of them died or all of them then there’s nothing you can do, the op is finished as a failure.

There are many ghosts in you team in co-op, potentially millions from online. They just pop up, help you fight a guerilla war and then disappear to thin air. How aren't they reinforcements? Or part of the team for the big operation?

Don't you think the game mode I've presented would take the slow grinding out of the current Ghost Mode permadeath playstyle? It would be the perfect BLEND between the original campaign and the Ghost Mode. And it can still be just an option: Will you lose campaign progression in Ghost Mode upon death: Yes / No?

[redsept]

Any compromise would do the job. I am getting a bit exhausted of it now. So I have died 4 times now. One BS explosion, two **** ups from myself (although one was a result of a flawed mechanic) and now AI standing next to me but refusing to revive me...
I literally can't be bothered killing Yuri and ****ing Polito anymore and I really can't be bothered getting every single fkin attachment again, or even just the ones you'd use like short barrels, fookin laser sights, red dots and all the other necessary stuff (as you can Imagine I am fairly triggered).

I like Ghost Mode, I like how your life matters, I like having only one gun and ''more realistic reloads'', but losing everything in a game this broken is a no go. Can it please be september already?

This is the whole point.

Permadeath is ok, but in a game like this it resets everything? And a glitch or a bug in the game can kill you instantly, pretty much whenever. Can't there be an option to just lose your character and the skills? When things are not always in your own hands, game over seems a bit harsh.