Slow down warden's new dash heavy a bit | Forums

[Knight_Raime]

No.
and it's 100% 300ms into the dash.
You're reflexes are just sub par.

[PepsiBeastin]

No.
and it's 100% 300ms into the dash.
You're reflexes are just sub par.

Because it's alright to just give everyone super-fast attacks that send them flying across the battlefield, completely eliminating the value of spacing. People complain about shinobi ranged heavies, I fail to see how moves like warden's valiant breakthrough or whatever its called aren't direct upgrades with less punishability.

[Knight_Raime]

Because it's alright to just give everyone super-fast attacks that send them flying across the battlefield, completely eliminating the value of spacing. People complain about shinobi ranged heavies, I fail to see how moves like warden's valiant breakthrough or whatever its called aren't direct upgrades with less punishability.

It doesn't eliminate the value of spacing. It punishes poor spacing. If a warden constantly charges at you with Break through and you're not punishing it that's 100% on you.
I space the hell out of warden with Valk and it doesn't mess with me. It's a chase down move. the first one in the game as far as I know. So getting mad for it doing it's job is silly.
Now if you can actually provide a clip where you correctly spaced and read the situation and break through still gets you then we can talk.

[DefiledDragon]

The problem is that faster attacks were the THING assassins were made around, now that everyone's getting them, there's less keeping them unique. Why should a man/woman in full plate armor be able to fly 20 feet forwards in less than half a second?

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but loads of ridiculous **** goes on in the game that doesn't make sense. You parry Shinobi's ranged attack and he zooms towards you and falls over. Why? Does he pull himself towards you? Has he got a portable winch in his Gi that just fires automatically regardless?

The move, whilst looking stupid, is useful and doesn't seem to be abusable. I use it to close distance or to catch people that are running away. My first reaction to it wasn't "well that's a bit ridiculous" but then whether or not you think the move is ridiculous is subjective. I think Shaman's bite is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a supposedly "competitive" fighting game, but there it is. I just don't see how slowing it down will change anything other than potentially rendering it useless for its intended purpose.

[NHLGoldenKnight]

It doesn't eliminate the value of spacing. It punishes poor spacing. If a warden constantly charges at you with Break through and you're not punishing it that's 100% on you.
I space the hell out of warden with Valk and it doesn't mess with me. It's a chase down move. the first one in the game as far as I know. So getting mad for it doing it's job is silly.
Now if you can actually provide a clip where you correctly spaced and read the situation and break through still gets you then we can talk.

At the same time forward dash enables multiple Wardens or even one to catch you if you are ganked by his team. So you pretty much don't have chance of running away from Warden if trying to escape from bunch of cowardly gankers.

[Knight_Raime]

At the same time forward dash enables multiple Wardens or even one to catch you if you are ganked by his team. So you pretty much don't have chance of running away from Warden if trying to escape from bunch of cowardly gankers.

If you or one of your team members is constantly being ganked they're situational awareness needs work. You should always be with or near an ally. Never be off on your own unless you have the confidence and skill to handle an out numbered situation. At the end of the day you're not supposed to win a 1vX situation. Revenge exists to stall so help arrives maybe. There are far more potent gank combos than anyone+ warden. Shaman is still king as gank partner.

[NHLGoldenKnight]

With all due respect, you and couple of other forum members are always trying to ignore main issue and you just keep focusing on individuals with usual comments to get better at game. It becomes annoying as hell.

If I am fighting 1v1 to capture a zone and 15 seconds later 3 more guys are coming, that is my bad situation awareness? Really?

I am not saying that I should be able to run away as any hero, but as an assasin yes. I should be able to get out of fight without Warden jumping 10 yards forward. And I am a Warden main and I hate assasins but running away from a fight should be their advantage.

Devs making less and less differences between classes and it helps with ganking. It helps a lot.

Not to mention how that move looks completely ridiculous. Clumsy and unrealistic even by For Honor standards. You had a chance to see that video of Warden going after Shinobi on other topic, and please watch it again. Warden literally pulled off his attack from around 10 yards with just steping forward once he was able to teleport next to his opponent without even moving his legs. Complete thrash of a move if you ask me.

[voiddp]

If you're talking about Vangaurds, you could level the same complaint at Kensei's dodge attack and the one where he leaps forward into a top heavy. Given what the move is designed to do, catch people who are running away from you, it's speed and tracking are necessary, otherwise it just wouldn't work and then it WOULD be an opener and nothing else. Slowing it down would make it useless for catching fleeing shinobi's and the like and if it's not useful it might as well be removed altogether. Sure it's annoying when you're running along and a Warden comes flying out of nowhere and lands a strike, but the same can be said of a lot of the other pouncing moves in the game, most of which are far more potent than this one.

lol man you clearly are just ignoring everything else that you didnt write here. Wow such disregard wow wow xD

As example Kensei has Nature Wrath for that same thing, why is that so much more balanced? It has range but not so much, it is a lot slower. So sure this warden move is bad disign.

kensei move is not so badly disigned as wardens. It slow as hell and reactable. And it has much lower range even through his weapon is longer and his other moves reach is longer than wardens moves. And then warden gets teleport. You can run from kensei easily, but not from warden now.
I can agree that every char should have at least one move like that with long reach. But not with reach and speed like warden has now. Its just not balanced and ridiculously OP in 4vs4 modes vs characters that should be able to run if they disengaged you by game years long concepts.

[Knight_Raime]

With all due respect, you and couple of other forum members are always trying to ignore main issue and you just keep focusing on individuals with usual comments to get better at game. It becomes annoying as hell.

If I am fighting 1v1 to capture a zone and 15 seconds later 3 more guys are coming, that is my bad situation awareness? Really?

I am not saying that I should be able to run away as any hero, but as an assasin yes. I should be able to get out of fight without Warden jumping 10 yards forward. And I am a Warden main and I hate assasins but running away from a fight should be their advantage.

Devs making less and less differences between classes and it helps with ganking. It helps a lot.

Not to mention how that move looks completely ridiculous. Clumsy and unrealistic even by For Honor standards. You had a chance to see that video of Warden going after Shinobi on other topic, and please watch it again. Warden literally pulled off his attack from around 10 yards with just steping forward once he was able to teleport next to his opponent without even moving his legs. Complete thrash of a move if you ask me.

Nah. If the whole rest of your foe's team shows up it's because they've killed your team more than likely. Either way though you're not supposed to win outnumbered engagements.
Falling back on the class system is a poor argument. Classes as a whole have never been very defined. Hybrids were the only heros that ever had any trace of an identity. The fact that you believe assassins means good mobility and someone else earlier was referring to assassins as speedy attack wise means we as a community don't even agree on what makes what class.

The only hero in this game that has any right to "run away" from a fight is shinobi because he's the mobility hero. And it's not like you can't disengage. You just have to be smart about it. Dodge into unlock roll is going to get you away even against warden 90% of the time.

Realism has no place in for honor. It's a fantasy game. As someone who actually has knowledge of weapons that are used in this game on top of actual fight experience with fencing and some brief other things it bothers me a lot to see how a lot of actions are done in this game. But I let it go because it's a damn game and visuals are done a specific way for a specific reason. The dashing heavy looks overly telegraphed and goofy for a reason. It's to make it easy to spot. When we have someone who's likely an 80lb man using gardening tools to pull in someone that weighs like a sumo wrestler you really can't be complaining about other moves.

I can clearly see the legs move in the beginning of it. Do they move the entire animation? No. but they do. But this is irrelevant.

My point is it's pretty telegraphed. and it's forced at 300ms into the dodge animation. If you're actually paying attention you can see it coming. In a fight against two decent players a raw break through is always blocked and sometimes even parried. It only ever lands in a 1v1 if someone is baited into a poor dodge or poor roll. I rightfully can't speak much about 4's. But then again in general dominion play tons of crap lands that normally wouldn't because people are bad at external blocking effectively.

[voiddp]

So your argument is that move designed to catch rolls can be avoided in 90%? So suuure... Then why they have made it at all if it doesn't serve its purpose like that?
They made move to catch rolls and now people use it as engage move with teleport when enemy isn't even near or locked, like no other character can. And as valid light in close combat.

And no you can't run from warden. Playing as assassin you usually just need to roll once to avoid some attack, thrown at your back and you can run after that, if there are not any assasins at the back. But warden can use his teleport just more as he likes and not just once and you are free. So its impossible to time few rolls and run away. You will be rolling untill dying without stopping.

I can sniff here something about totally miss purposing the move and not predicting how it can be used outside of catching rolls. So they should really look at it and nerf range.