Season 7 - Valkyrie Feedback | Forums

[UbiJurassic]

Hello everyone,

Season 7 brought with it the hotly anticipated rework for the Valkyrie. In anticipation of your feedback, please use this thread to leave your thoughts and comments on the current reworks. this will allow us to better organize and share your comments with the fight team.

If you would like to leave feedback regarding Warden, please do so here.

Thanks and enjoy the battlefields!

[Funeragon]

I didn't play Valk at all before and after rework.
But what i can say, is that shield tackle was a very annoying AND strong skill which was overused. Now, it looks terrible (compared to others fullstance block), athough she has already a lot of others options.

Fast light (top one if i recall correctly) as ****. Why would you play orochi when you can have the same light speed as Valkyrie ? Also she has a heavy softfeint into a unblockable into a free light.
Combine those two and it's a spam fest !
Wallsplat with a light finisher (which also drains stamina A LOT, and stuns), actually the first one to have this thing o_o

Heavies and zone still feels slow and weak >>> useless. Tho it may be usefull in teamfights

[RLTygurr]

I think she's much better balanced than she used to be. She's stronger offensively because the shield tackle is a bit faster, useable more often in her (shockingly large number of) chains, and guarantees a light. This makes her a fairly strong mixup-oriented hybrid like she was intended to be.

Defensively, she still has her deflect, which is very strong in the right hands.

The leg sweep is still not great, but now it isn't considered a heavy for revenge-parry purposes so it won't knock her down if she attempts. Plus, it doesn't keep the opponent on the ground for as long and ends her chain with a powerful hit rather than keeping them in the mixup loop. This is good for balance purposes, in my personal opinion.

Honestly? I think she's probably one of the best reworks of an extremely weak character, arguably better than Kensei since he's still considered on the stronger side of the mostly-balanced characters.

[xTheBurgerMan]

Rep 11 Valkyrie main here, I know I don't speak for everyone, and don't have as much experience with her as i'm sure the super high rep valks do, but bare with me

SHIELD TACKLE:
Before the rework, understandably the charged shield tackle was crazy strong to the point of being nearly op. However like Funeragon mentioned, it is pretty much useless now as people can just hit you out of it while charging. To change, I think the full block while running should be reimplemented as well as the stun (Which would make sense as it's basically a charged shield crush). Having the knockdown was waaaay too strong from what ive heard but adding the stun back would further reinforce the idea of being a 'disabler'.

FINISHERS:
I think the light speeds should stay the same (in regards to finishers). People complain about the fact that the top light finishers is 400ms, despite the fact that blocking top renders it useless if not predictable to parry if its being spammed often. As for the side light finishers, I really like the ability to wallsplat as this too reinforces the idea of a disabler hero, and feels really satisfying to pull off when combined with a heavy punish from said wallsplat + they are fast enough to both be effective as well as reactable for the opponent.

GUARD-BREAK /+ RANGE:
In addition, from both personal experience as well as posts from others, i've noticed that her gb is still as terrible as it was pre-rework. Combining this with her recovery being somewhat 'unique', gets you killed quite often.

SWEEP:
As im sure you're also aware, Valkyries sweep is terrible, possibly even worse than it was before her rework. 'But why is that?' you might ask - As well as being friendly fire, It is no longer delayable/delayable enough to have an effect. As it is still 600ms, anyone with half a brain and an eye missing can still dodge the sweep on reaction now; which also means that her only source of high damage - being the sweep punish - is rarely accessed, and is instead punished (even if your opponent is oos, they still get a gb which is a joke).
To improve, I think the sweep should be:
a) Changed to 500ms, making it harder to react
AND/OR
b) Delayable as it was prior to the rework to catch out dodges while still keeping the input
Side note: Personally I don't mind the keybinding change, but considering the backlash from changing it to middle mouse, this could do with a revert back.

RAM'S HEADBUTT:
As one of her more powerful moves in her skillset prior to her rework, and one which made her unique in regards to stam punishes, I was confused as to why it was removed with the rework. It was a really strong move, and yet wasn't excessively overpowered/overtuned to my knowledge/experience. Personally, I think this should be added back into her moveset for multiple reasons:
a) One of her redeeming and unique features, as well as being really satisying to use.
b) Adds to her 'disabler' playstyle. Why is she labeled a disabler if she doesn't do exactly that - e.g. able to punish those with poor stam management.

STAMINA:
This is debatable as it might possibly be down to personal issues as opposed to hero issues. When playing valkyrie, I would often find myself out of stamina both before and after the rework. This is either down to one of two things:
a) her stamina pool being too low.
or
b) Me having poor stamina management.
In the case of the former, then I think her stam pool should be increase to further allow her to feint/mixup without running out breath 90% of the time.
If the latter, then ignore me.

ZONE
Despite being as slow as a standard heavy which would have done 24 damage, the first hit instead deals 20, which makes no sense whatsoever. there is no situation in the game where you should ever use this move, unless you either want to:
a) Get parried and lose all your stam. - Useless in 1v1
or
b) Slaughter some minions - Still useless when fighting other players

SHIELD CRUSH:
As for her shield crush mixup, from my experience and what i've tested with bots, the mixup can be negated with an immediate back dodge - neither the heavy, nor the bash will connect upon doing so; setting up for an easy parry on valk if she accidently lets out a light attack assuming it would connect/out of fear of gb from whiff. Unless she immediately feints and goes for a dash gb (being highly unlikely as heavy -> shield crush is a good source of damage), I think the opponent can counter gb, which essentially removes one of her strongest mixups from the game. Also, if she decides not to let go of a light after missing the shield crush, she can get gb'd - Again further punishing this easily counterable mixup.

EXECUTIONS:
Lastly, executing with valk is too difficult. If you let your heavy go it will get parried more often than not, if you choose to soft feint into shield crush instead then you dont get an execution. I therefore suggest two changes:
a) Bump up her heavies to 25 damage - This will let valk execute those on one bar of health - although 25 damage on a light parry is still p!ss poor damage, its better than nothing. (Damage bump increase open for debate)
b) Let her shoulder pin execute - would make perfect sense + look sick af in addition to being satisfying to pull off (further rewarding the risk of going for deflects).


Rant over, feel free to leave suggestions/feedback or whatever.

[il_biagio]

they fast hit, dodge and hit, fast hit, fast hit, tackle and fast hit, and fast hit and you die with doing nothing more than take the hits…

[xTheBurgerMan]

they fast hit, dodge and hit, fast hit, fast hit, tackle and fast hit, and fast hit and you die with doing nothing more than take the hits…

Instead of posting meaningless comments like yours which do nothing to help in any shape or form; you could instead provide suggestions/feedback as well as any additional reasoning on how valkyrie could be improved.

I think in your case however, you're probably losing a lot of the time due to your reaction speed not being very good; could be wrong though

[Fgw_wolf]

After spending extensive time with the rework valk I don't want to play her anymore. Her kit was gutted for no good reason. The "mix ups" you guys included are next to useless when your first attack is blocked or parried. Valk wants to hit her lights top, so you block top and react to everything else. Heavies get parried, thats all there is to it. I can not land a heavy on an opponent. You could feint that heavy into a shield bash however most of the cast have dodge moves to punish that.

Old shield tackle used to let me ledge if I positioned right and was clever, or I could dodge out and bait an attack or a dash to gb, or punish people trying to use UBs or run up to gb.
Now it does nothing. You just get poked out of it. Its a null move. I have trouble understanding how you guys thought this was finished or polished and thats without even bringing up sweep because you can't even push a live update with the correct values apparently.

Her damage is abysmal. I have to spend an entire stamina bar to land a light and then I eat 30+ damage or more. I can't fight people do more damage anymore. For every 5 mistakes they make I can only make 2. I can't pressure them because they know where the pressure points of my mix ups are and theres nothing I can do to force them to defend against those. All they need do is block the first attack and I'm useless. Fighting heavies feels impossible because their health pools and damage are MASSIVE compared to mine where as before the rework I felt I had a fighting chance if I fought smart. I can't fight smart, everything has a flow chart and flow charts can be beaten easily.

I guess I'll find a new main if this is the direction you guys want to take her. I'm really disappointed especially after having seen two of the new heroes coming. Maybe one of them will be fun to play. Heres hoping. You dropped the ball for me here ubi. I really wanted to be excited for this, I got really good with old valk cause was fun despite being mostly garbage and you made her worse.

GIVING HER PSUEDO HIDDEN STANCE DOESN'T MAKE HER GOOD also please explain how shes supposed to counter highlander without her dodge attack.

[Jastorm187]

After playing Valk both before, and giving her a chance after I have to say I don't fully mind the changes. I will say it is a VERY different playstyle that what she used to be. She used to be very good at being a bit more defensive and WAY better and disabling and shoving people around.
She will most likely remain as my second main in her current state (which is where she was before)

Now you have greatly improved her offensive capabilities and mixups, however you completely destroyed her ability to control the fight by pushing and shoving people around. We lost some staple skills that are just gone completely. Here are my thoughts on what went away that made me sad.. and one improvement that I think is needed


Superior block on lights
The superior block on light attack window needs to be SLIGHTLY bigger. I have been trying on bots for a while and she cannot switch guard and light attack fast enough to make this work. The only way it works is if you are already guarding the direction of the attack (which defeats the purpose as the opponent should never attack from that direction)
(FYI, this is on console, i'm sure PC its fine but console players this doesn't work)

Ram's headbutt
Guardbreak into rams headbut was a fantastic way to either a) get some distance and stam damage on your opponent or b) ledge them off the cliff behind them. Now it is a minimalist shove.. i can barely call it a shove. All her shoves can barely move other players at all. Yes you greatly increased side light on the third hit in the combo for wall splats but thats provided you can get that third hit in. It works but its not on command as we are used to. I would love to see the headbutt come back a little. Take away the charge and BIG stam drain if you want.. leave the mechanic as is but it should nock the opponent back a bit farther than it currently does to give us a chance of ledging.

Shield Tackle
Her shield tackle used to be not only a great defence but a good disabler and mix up with the cancel into light.
Now it is not only close to useless, but its dangerous and HIGHLY punishable especially fo rthe amount of reward you get from it. Removing BOTH the full block during charge AND the ability to knock the opponent destroyed this skill. The only minor use it has is that it goes into a combo if it hits. Keep in mind thats a big IF.... it is a huge wind up so its fully choreographed. so IF you even get back into the full blcok before they hit you.. and IF they dont poke you out of it when you start to move forward.. and IF they dont dodge it... and IF they aren't just out of range from backing up from the full blcok... then you will hit with a love tap of a shield to open a combo. Personally in its state.. i'd rather a full blcok stance with a retaliation swing like conq/warlord over this . Especially considering the back dodge doesn't work anymore and you have to make it to the full block for this to even work...
This skill either needs a bigger reward considering the risk (such as knocking people down) or the full b lock needs to be reinstated for the entire charge to use as a gap closer... we need one or the other or this is a useless skill that used to be a staple.

[Tonka47]

Valkyrie has been my favorite character since release and there are things that I've liked before and after this rework. There are some good points that have already been made about her that I feel are valid and some I do think is players not embracing a different play style for her. I'll do my best to put my thoughts into a pro / con category.

Cons

Moves that are too easily telegraphed and reactable (Sweep, Shield Tackle, Top Light)

Sweep result is unpredictable on who it's going to sweep. Sometimes it's the first person (or minion) you hit, sometimes it's more, or none. Sometimes it doesn't even sweep the intended target when it does hit. There have been situations where it won't sweep when the oponent has been grabbed by a teammate, or when they block an attack from a teammate, or when the opponent has revenge. Those instances might be the exceptions, and if so great, but the sweep has also worked in these situations which adds to it's unpredictability. I've also found that the punish is unpredictable in group situations as well. Sometimes it works as intended and others it just doesn't, usually when you sweep more than one teammate/opponent. This is frustrating as it is already hard to land the sweep consistently. She also needs to have the delay option put back in for those who dodge to early.

Shield Tackle has been changed into a fancy back dodge and is almost useless as it is. It is very hard to get the superior block function as the opponent has to be moving in for an attack as you are going through the animation to get your cancel into gb. If that attack misses they usually have enough time to then dodge or counter strike if you follow through with the tackle. Then if you were to manage to avoid all those pitfalls, your only reward is a light attack and a little stamina drain. I agree this was a bit OP with the knockdown and was heavily relied on, but it needed to be in the state the valkyrie was in. it was also very useful being able to dash out of it (Conqueror can do this, but to cancel all he as to do is release the thumbstick). I also understand the back dash into another shield tackle stance was overused as an escape tactic. Suggestion, keep the dash out option to the sides and front, keep superior block during shield tackle (Warden has hyper armor on his charged shoulder), improve tracking, add stun/stumble effect back similar to the third light to the side.

Charged Headbutt. This was a staple of hers that I don't think needed a change. It was a great stamina punish and could knockdown if the stamina drained during the move. This was perfect for the type of hero she's supposed to be and it was intimidating. Even a couple of her executions include headbutts which added to the intimidation and image of her. This being replaced with such a weak head bump forward throw is meme level.

Second light attack speed being restricted to top only. This makes her too predictable and the positive that was meant to get her into chains faster has turned into a light parry heavy punish. If this was changed for all second light attacks it could be more reliable as a counter to a whiffed shield tackle/crush or missed sweep. It could be used to counter a GB. Not sure how this would take, but if the light attack after the shield tackle/crush or sweep had superior block it could also be used to counter any attacks after a whiff.


Pros

Options. Mix up potential with the new chains is what the Valkyrie has sorely needed and I am very happy with the potential here.

Increased recovery times. Less chance of GB for missing the moves she is supposed to rely on.

Soft feint into shield crush. Althought keeping this and having the option to also getting back the shield bash during heavy recovery would increase the chances of it landing (Conquerer also has this).

Missed GB animation. But at the cost of GB distance without forward dashing first.

Light attack range. Much more reasonable with the weapon type and opens up more options for punishing missed attacks from the opponent.

Superior block lights opener with unblockable properties. Great move when you can predict which direction your opponent will attack. Otherwise it's unreliable because the guard stance change is typically to slow to react to attacks. Not sure if this has just been my experience, or for what reason, but it slows your second attack so it's difficult to continue with your normal chain.

Dodge Counter. Whether you go for the GB or the Shoulder Pin, this is a great move. Please add this option back to the Shield Tackle.

Shoulder Pin. Love this move and the changes that were made. However, the option to chain after needs to be faster and she should be able to execute on kill. It would also be really cool if you could get extra damage from additional inputs (Centurion for PK style) and do like a grind/twist/side to side jerk with the spear in the shoulder. Or keep damage the same but add a push option to create distance or wall splat (similar to Gladiator's skewer and with animation something like the ending of the Spearfishing execution).

Zone Attack. It is better, but still not great. I don't think the Warden should be able to swing that sword faster than the Valkyrie can swing a spear (top of my head comparison). Maybe changing the first strike of the zone to the shield would work? Animation similar to the third side light in a chain. This would make her zone a bit more unique from the rest of her moveset and that animation would transfer well into the Shield Crush cancel animation.

Third light stumble/daze/wall splat. When it lands it is very satisfying. Thank you.

Shield Tackle Feint. Having this option opens up better punish possibility when timed properly for a GB.

Spear Sweep Punish. Well done, with the exception to the unpredictable sweep as stated above.

I think that's about it. I'm sure I'll remember something once I post this, but I hope this is read by the right people and we can get Valkyrie where we all want her to be.

Finally, thanks for all your hard work at Ubisoft on this game. It's been a long hard road since I've been playing since the Beta, but I still love this game and it seems to only be getting better. Keep up the good work!

[That_guy44]

I'm not a fan of the rework. Valk mains please chime in if you have any advice for me or I state something incorrect. Also I'm speaking from a duels standpoint.

The sweep finisher does good damage but that's all it is. You cant combo off of it and now have to start your chain all over again. I don't understand how that is more fluid than before. Before after you land the heavy you could shieldbash, attack, or GB. Now you just look at them stand up.

She lost shieldbash after heavy. Why? That seems unnecessary. That limits her options in duels. The feint into shieldbash is still there but now it's obvious.
Her full block charge got nerfed to all hell. Before you'd get a dash attack and the start of her mixup game. Now you just get a guaranteed light. After the light, you can sweep, attack, or try a delayed GB. All of these options are negated by your opponent dashing back or using a dash attack sideways. If you try any type of offense after the guaranteed light now, you will get shredded by a dash attack. She doesn't have any counters to it. Even you guess the direction your opponent is dashing to, invincibility frames will keep them safe. Obviously they dodge the sweep. You cant GB them because of my next point.

Who thought it was a great idea to make her sweep the same damn button as GB? So now when I get to that point in my mixup and want to punish a dashing opponent, I throw out a sweep and get punished instead of grabbing them. The delay is so long that everyone that dodges in anticipation of the sweep will recover enough to CGB me. It's already to GB dashing attacks and now with Valk having the delay for the steep to pass, its impossible to do once you get to that point. I feel like I'm literally setting my own demise. I can stop and wait for the parry but then I've lost all offensive pressure. Before you could 100% someone with one stamina bar if they didn't know her mixups. Now she seems simple. I'm sure you cant sweep after shieldbash now? If that's correct that's another mixup from her that's gone.