Community Manager
Senior Member
@iAurelia
Responding to this is probs a bad idea but I hate myself so.
~She absolutely needed a rework. The only people stating otherwise are glorifying how she used to be because they're wounded over her being a different hero gameplay wise now. She had poor recovery, low damage, and was generally unsafe. Her old playstyle was more unique. But it was not better unless you want to count shield tackle spam in a team fight.
~The fact that you're writing off 4v4 means no one should really listen to you. But whatever. 4's is only a spam fest when you are dealing with randoms. If you actually watch a team that works and communicates together it's drastically different. There is actual strats in proper skrims with it. Do not assume for a second that general play in any mode is how it's going to play out when things actually matter.
~"she was strong" No. she was good in a gank. She sucked everywhere else.
~"she was hard to play." And?
~"the rework made her too strong." She's low A tier at best for duels. Shield crush isn't as strong as conq's bash. It's safer than it was before. But it's reactable. Unlike conq's bash (barring a few heros.)
"they should make old valk their goal for balance not shaman." LOL WAT.
"Why did I make this post?" Because you loved the original way the hero played and regardless of how she plays out now you can't get over the fact that she plays different now.
Let me clue you in on something. All of the OG roster were terribly designed from concept to gameplay execution. The reworks are aimed at making those poor kit designs viable. The devs gutted old valk to make her viable most skill tiers. Does it suck? sure. But it's not the end of the world. I'd rather have my favorite hero viable. In a perfect world Ubi would have just scrapped the entire OG rosters kits and revisited their core concepts to make heros as good as these new ones coming in marching fire. But that's too big of an ask.
Junior Member
~"she was strong" No. she was good in a gank. She sucked everywhere else.
~"she was hard to play." And?
~"the rework made her too strong." She's low A tier at best for duels. Shield crush isn't as strong as conq's bash. It's safer than it was before. But it's reactable. Unlike conq's bash (barring a few heros.)
> Yes She was strong enough to be considered a playable character, just because she wasn't overpowered doesn't mean she was not strong.
> She was hard to play > I wrote this because they killed her personality and whole core of basic gameplay with that rework, she isn't even close to being "hard to play" now. Not even an inch
> How is her shield crush not stronger than conq's bash? Both have light guaranted, Valkyrie's even does more damage and you can't even punish valkyrie for missing it.
By that next i don't know how to explain, i said my english sucks, they should take old valkyrie as their main example of how a hero should look like when it comes to balance, probably. Because she wasn't overpowered but still playable, she was high risk hero, now she's no risk hero.
" Why did I make this post?" Because you loved the original way the hero played and regardless of how she plays out now you can't get over the fact that she plays different now. "
Yeah actually one thing that I agree with, with one exception, i would get over it if she wasn't no risk high reward hero, this way you meet her in every second game because people love broken heroes like shaman.
Senior Member
She was C tier in duels. B tier heros are not even considered viable at a competitive level. If we're talking standard gameplay any hero even goki is viable. The point of reworks is making the poorly designed kits viable in competitive play.Originally Posted by iAurelia Go to original post
Because Conq's bash has variable timing that can be mixed up with an empty dodge into GB. And GB's are super important. Not to mention when it's let go as soon as it can be it's faster than shield crush. Both crush and conq's bash are punishable with a dodge attack. You can't punish either beyond that unless they throw a follow up attack and you parry it. Valks crush has to come from a heavy feint. and dodging on reaction to the heavy indicator avoids the shield crush. So no. it's not as strong or stronger than conq's bash.
People recommend shaman to be the bench mark because her entire kit is viable at any skill bracket. In my personal opinion while that would be nice it's far from doable with how this game is designed at it's core. I'd say the bench mark should be current kensei/warden. They won't design after old Valk because old valk was fundementally bad from a competitive standpoint. And this game is a fighter. You want as many heros competitively viable as possible.
Member
Nah man who even cares about the tiers, if you are good enough you can play anythingOriginally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
I agree here with this valkyrie fanboy, has point, is right, they made her spammy as sh*t, and spamming never takes skill.
I also think she was okay before rework and didn't need it at all.
Member
A few points i dont think got mentioned:
- guaranteed 35 damage after sweep is now much faster (300 ms or so?), useful in dominion (previous was 25is damage at 800 ms(?)
- sweep now available after crush as before but with 15(?) Guaranteed damage inbetween nor light finisher. Damage boost on old crush.
- sweep can knock several, good if you 1v2 or bad if 2v1 etc. So maybe alittle helpful if outnumbered? (Can get gbd allright..)
- crush + light now very useful in msny v1. Before u could hardly touch good blockers then. (Sweep also likely after in 4v4)
And i really like the fast hard punish on sweep. Great feeling.
Senior Member
Both the devs and the competitive community care about that kinda stuff.Originally Posted by Kiramekki Go to original post
Perfectly fine for you to wana be a rando who only cares about rando general gameplay.
Just don't pretend you get the game on a deep level and feel valid in making suggestions that effect the game as a whole.
Junior Member
When I play duels, ranked, or ever brawls, valk is an every growing problem. Reputation 20 valks mindlessly cancel heavies into shield bash for a guaranteed light, then spam the same thing again and again. Valk can turtle and do nothing on offense the entire match.
Suggested fixes:
•Light attack speed is decreased by 100-200 ms, this will make her require skill and combos to actually be good with her.
•Shield bash has less tracking, and speed is reduced by 100ms. This will prevent no-skill players from spamming the same attacks.
•The guaranteed light attack after shield bash should do 12 dmg. This prevents players from bringing your health down by one attack.
•Light attack after shield bash cannot be chained into anything else. This prevents the exact same shield bash vortex that I was discussing.
•Finally, trip punisher should do 20 dmg. This is a problem because it does a ridiculous amount of damage, more than Centurion’s ground punish.
Valkyrie is not a hybrid anymore. She is basically an assassin that Ubisoft buffed to much. Her lights are spammy, she has a overpowered punish, and she can not play offensively the entire match.
Warden’s rework had actual trade offs, for instance his shoulder bash is more predictable, and you can’t sort fient into a guardbreak anymore. Valkyrie’s rework had the trade off of her headbutt guardbreak, but nobody used this ability. She gained way more than warden in this rework, and she is as bad as Shaman when she was released (Shaman still is slightly overpowered).
Senior Member
I'm not a fan of the rework. Valk mains please chime in if you have any advice for me or I state something incorrect. Also I'm speaking from a duels standpoint.
The sweep finisher does good damage but that's all it is. You cant combo off of it and now have to start your chain all over again. I don't understand how that is more fluid than before. Before after you land the heavy you could shieldbash, attack, or GB. Now you just look at them stand up.
She lost shieldbash after heavy. Why? That seems unnecessary. That limits her options in duels. The feint into shieldbash is still there but now it's obvious.
Her full block charge got nerfed to all hell. Before you'd get a dash attack and the start of her mixup game. Now you just get a guaranteed light. After the light, you can sweep, attack, or try a delayed GB. All of these options are negated by your opponent dashing back or using a dash attack sideways. If you try any type of offense after the guaranteed light now, you will get shredded by a dash attack. She doesn't have any counters to it. Even you guess the direction your opponent is dashing to, invincibility frames will keep them safe. Obviously they dodge the sweep. You cant GB them because of my next point.
Who thought it was a great idea to make her sweep the same damn button as GB? So now when I get to that point in my mixup and want to punish a dashing opponent, I throw out a sweep and get punished instead of grabbing them. The delay is so long that everyone that dodges in anticipation of the sweep will recover enough to CGB me. It's already to GB dashing attacks and now with Valk having the delay for the steep to pass, its impossible to do once you get to that point. I feel like I'm literally setting my own demise. I can stop and wait for the parry but then I've lost all offensive pressure. Before you could 100% someone with one stamina bar if they didn't know her mixups. Now she seems simple. I'm sure you cant sweep after shieldbash now? If that's correct that's another mixup from her that's gone.
Community Manager
We now have a dedicated thread for the Valkyrie Feedback, if you can head over to the other thread please continue your discussions there
