Senior Member
So before I get into the reworks and how I feel about them/what should probably change I want to note 2 bugs. The first is warden. The patch notes specifically state that he's supposed to be able to soft feint out of his heavy finishers. here is the line: "The Heavy Finisher link gives the Warden new options to link up to do additional damage, especially with the new soft feint Shoulder Bash off Heavy Finisher (see below)."
The second bug is valk's new sweep and shield tackle. The sweep is supposed to be 500ms as per the patch notes. It's still 600ms. Also the notes only mentioned not being able to back dash out of her shield tackle. But she currently can't dash out of it in any fashion. If there are any other bugs I come across i'll make a seperate thread about them.
Now lets get into the reworks starting with Warden:
Something interesting I noticed with the reworks in general is that they were not buffs. Well technically parts were. But honestly they feel like a rework more than a buff. Warden used to be about looping bash as much as possible, raw top lights, and sprinkled in zone. This new Warden is more about heavies. His bash compliments his playstyle instead of running it. Charged bash now correctly catches people who dodge on reaction to your dodge or the start up of bash. And his new rush down heavy catches people who roll on reaction.
It's technically possible to dodge roll to escape but if Warden is aware of this he can cancel his bash and then go for another to catch you. The removal of armor on the move until you start moving was also smart. Because it baits people into trying to hit you out of it. Which lets warden cancel and parry. The new bash is very strong but not oppressively so like old bash was. And the rush down heavy is a very nice compliment to it.
But no rework is perfect...and for the Warden this comes out to be the new unblockable top heavy finisher. I went in thinking it would be just as good as Zerks mix up minus the armor. But unfortunately that's not the case. It's a much longer animation now which would have been fine if it had something extra. The current feint window is 400ms. That's far too early to be use as a proper feint bait on an 1100ms move. Now that being said I can understand why it's only 400ms. As it seemed like you were planning to let Warden soft feint into his bash from it. If we actually had that this would be miles better. But i'm not sure if that's what you guys wanted or if that was just a typo. I suggest that we either get that soft feint or you allow warden to hard feint the unblockable up to 600ms in the heavy.
Now lets get into Valk:
I will fully admit that until last night I had never really played her. That being said I'm fairly active in the competitive community and have read up on a lot of information from there and dedicated Valk mains. So I feel at the very least i'm decently educated with her. Like with Warden this wasn't really a buff and more of a change. She lost a lot of her gank/team fight potential and moved closer to her assassin part of her hybrid.
I say this because sweep and shield tackle (and I suppose some headbutt) lost utility. Which are tools primarily for those situations. yet they made shoulder pin, superior lights, more better combos, etc a thing for her. Putting her more in a dueling 1v1 sense. Where assassins usually reign. Now I LIKE how this new Valk plays. She feels easier to use and understand. Her mix ups with shield crush and the new combos can loop really well. And you can end said loop with a sweep either via landed heavy or chain finisher replacement.
That being said I also acknowledge that with this rework she lost a lot of what made valk..valk. I'm personally not effected by this and even if I was i'm more interested in viability than identity with the OG roster. And if her rework was actually good well...we wouldn't be having this issue. There are good aspects for sure. But there are issues as well.
For starters shield tackle. I will be the first one to scream out that it being nerfed was justified with how safe it was in 1v1. You could never punish it. Just what she chose to do after leaving it. That being said I think they nerfed it too hard. I think Valk should be able to side dash or forward dash out of it. And also I think the knock down should return. But we can leave off the full block property while sprinting. that honestly was the main reason it was super oppressive.
Now lets look at her sweep. It's supposed to be 500ms. So fix that. Also please revert the ability to trip multiple allies with it. even if sweep was in a good spot that wouldn't justify constantly screwing your team. If you want people to use something else in a team fight instead of spamming sweep buff the other stuff. Also I don't know why you didn't touch sweeps recovery but please buff it. even at 500ms it will still be some what reactable with how the combos currently are. she shouldn't be getting gbed so freely in her attempts to mix up. You only discourage it's use that way.
TLDR:
~Give warden his soft feint into bash from top heavy or let us hard feint in a bigger window on the top unblockable finisher.
~Fix valks sweep speed to be 500ms as intended.
~reduce the recovery on sweep miss.
~let valk side and forward dash out of shield tackle.
~let shield tackle knock people down.
~remove sweeps ability to trip multiple allies.
Community Manager
Thanks for sharing the feedback as always, Knight_Raime. The Valk Sweep being 500ms is actually an error in the patch notes. The sweep is still only 600ms and we'll be updating the patch notes to to fix that misunderstanding.Originally Posted by Knight_Raime Go to original post
Banned
Senior Member
Really? Wow. Well imo it should be 500ms then if it's going to keep it's really long recovery on miss.Originally Posted by UbiJurassic Go to original post
Also pope confirmed the soft feint into bash on heavy finishers for warden was also a mistake in the notes.
So in addition to the feedback i've already given that you've seen please pass along that I And several people in the competitive community want valk's sweep to be 500ms.
And that we also want the feint window on the unblockable top finisher for warden to be increased from 400ms to 600ms.
thank you.
Senior Member
Nobushi wants to have a word with you....in private...in a dark alley.Originally Posted by dinosaurlicker Go to original post
Banned
Senior Member
Not really. She lacks any kind of offense and while hidden stance is very strong it has limited applications. If we were going to talk about "most balanced" i'd say the line devs need to shoot for would be kensei.Originally Posted by dinosaurlicker Go to original post
Senior Member
Like Knight said already, you really should remove the allies beeing sweep.Originally Posted by UbiJurassic Go to original post
I mean Cent, Shinobi, Shugo and few others has mooves which allow your team to hit your opponent.
Valk sweep should be one of them as Well.
Plus because of that having more than one Valk in a team is not good if they are always doing it in team fights (i've already expérience To eat a heavy because of an ally sweep ://)
Second thing is her shield tackle. . I fully agree she should still dash to get out of it as it was a whole part of her mix up.
But this mix up was working thanks to the full block properties. . Now if opponents know they just has the land a light or be aware for your dash. . They dont have a reason to dash your Shield tackle which was a good opportunity to GB at mid distance before.
Knocking down is not absolutly necessary btw as it already guaranteed only a light in most situation before (4v4).
In my opinion just give back the old one or remove it totally as you did with the headbutt because it became absolutly unusefull. . Just as became the headbutt after parry changes.
She was weak for so long. . I was as a lot of Valk lovers only expecting buff for her and not nerf as well.
Btw overall i like the rework. . Ive already made great game with the new valk . So thanks
