Warden Buff doesnt make much sense | Forums

[SenBotsu893]

Can’t stand u QQers who come to the forums 2 min after a change to a hero or new hero’s added and call for nerfs lol. Rework just came out bro calm down. And it isn’t a buff so you can stop sayin that thank you

some of those QQers were already able to play those changes in the TTS.

and it is a pure buff. because he didnt loose anything in exchange.

[SenBotsu893]

Highlanders CC leads him into his offensive form where his big **** damage is. Not comparable to wardens. Wardens CC is less safe because it's coming from the top and he can't option select with it like highlander can. Crushing counter rarely lands in even high mid tier. It's fine. The removal of guaranteed SB makes sense because of how strong SB now is. The damage from CC plus SB follow up was never an actual issue.

you seem to be missing the point on purpose. warden has already higher damage from crushing counter to beginn with AND a guaranteed follow up. and you cant be serious that the 55 damage for a single cc isnt way too much.

It's really not. It's executable only 300ms into the dodge. For frame of reference centurion's kick is only available 300ms into his dodge and is 100ms slower. The move is super obvious if the person constantly relies on it. Kensei's helm splitter was always a light it just had a special property. It was rightly nerfed because of how new kensei plays with his top heavy. Considering kensei can go straight into his top heavy mix up with decent tracking options from neutral it's different than warden who has to get to his heavy finishers first. New dash heavy is a chase down. Helm splitter never was. It purely existed as one way to get into mix ups. different situations.

so it wouldnt be a problem if valiant breakthrough was a light attack dealing 17 damage instead of 15. i was comparing the two identical moves because and suggested to make them even.
if you want to argue kensei has his top heavy mixup from neutral okey. warden has easier acces towards bashes. we could go on like that but i just wanted to adress this specific movement wich was reduced on an underdog hero while the other one got it as an extra cherry on top.

-sigh-

Immediate thought was zerks opening light. Which makes sense because it got a redic speed buff of 400ms and it has armor. Not comparable to Warden's side lights. Orochi's if they also got reduced in damage makes sense because they're unreactable 400ms lights in combo. Far more powerful than warden's side lights. If you reduced his double side lights to 15 then it would be as strong as his top light. Would make no sense to ever attempt the double hit when that leaves you open to an extra GB window in ganks.

you either mixed up some numbers here or you did this on purpose to because it suited your argument.

berserker STARTING side lights are 500MS 15 damage.
orochi STARTING side lights have been speed up to 500 MS and changed to 15 damage.
pk STARTING side lights 500MS reduced to 13 damage.

now comes Warden STARTING side light gives guaranteed 18 damage. i merely wanted to align it with the latest changes and reduce it by a whooooooping 3 damage. shame on me right?

if you havent noticed i was and still are refering to STARTING lights and not to any chained or feinted attacks.
to make it more blunt i was talking about apples and you said lemons are stronger.

How about you actually play with the new Warden for awhile before you start throwing out blind and frankly ignorant statements.

remeber that some of us actually had a good amount of time to play with these changed heroes in the TTS. so think again maybe just maaaaybe this ignorant statemant has some basis?

besides i didnt ask for any groundbreaking changes i merely wanted to keep him an an even playing field with the other heroes.

you on the other hand immedately accuse me of making irrational damands because of your personal opinion of me.

so i ask you to take a moment and take a good loock at yourself, try to distance yourself of personal bias as much as possible and see if tweaking a few damage numbers by a small margin is really this bad.

[BTTrinity]

I think Warden was one of the most in need of a rework simply because how limited his kit is.... This rework makes him so much more fun....

Also he wasnt just buffed, he was nerfed too... He lost his soft cancel, AND "Vortex" in favor of more useful charged variants of shoulder bash.

I think the unblockable is fine the way it is considering its a finisher. If he could just initiate a top heavy unblockable from neutral then numbers might need adjusting but otherwise no.

And considering he can only crushing counter from top, no I dont think that 55 damage is too much. I think its too much that you'd rather complain on the forums that he needs a nerf, rather then just not letting top attacks fly.

If his crushing counter be used from ALL sides, then 55 damage is to much.

[lNogardl]

I'm liking it so far as a Warden main, the only thing i have a problem is fighting against Conquerors, it's an absolute nightmare because they have a save dodge meaning i can't punish them if they dodge from my attacks, which is so bs. Just fought against a playr that really frustrated me and i couldn't beat him for the life of me, he knew the timing of my bash so well that he would dodge everything even if i mixed it up, and even if i caught him in the dash he can just shoulder bash and voila, hes too ****ing safe and i felt at a disadvantage if i threw anything from neutral, he made me scared of using Warden against anyone else.. i guess i'll just take it easy.

[The_B0G_]

I'm liking it so far as a Warden main, the only thing i have a problem is fighting against Conquerors, it's an absolute nightmare because they have a save dodge meaning i can't punish them if they dodge from my attacks, which is so bs. Just fought against a playr that really frustrated me and i couldn't beat him for the life of me, he knew the timing of my bash so well that he would dodge everything even if i mixed it up, and even if i caught him in the dash he can just shoulder bash and voila, hes too ****ing safe and i felt at a disadvantage if i threw anything from neutral, he made me scared of using Warden against anyone else.. i guess i'll just take it easy.

They definitely missed the mark on the Conq and Orochi rework, I like Kensei's, and wardens the most so far. Conq just feels unpunishable short of a parry, he can miss bash after bash and keep his momentum. Dodging a shield bash should get you more than a 400 ms light in the head.

[Knight_Raime]

you seem to be missing the point on purpose. warden has already higher damage from crushing counter to beginn with AND a guaranteed follow up. and you cant be serious that the 55 damage for a single cc isnt way too much.




so it wouldnt be a problem if valiant breakthrough was a light attack dealing 17 damage instead of 15. i was comparing the two identical moves because and suggested to make them even.
if you want to argue kensei has his top heavy mixup from neutral okey. warden has easier acces towards bashes. we could go on like that but i just wanted to adress this specific movement wich was reduced on an underdog hero while the other one got it as an extra cherry on top.




you either mixed up some numbers here or you did this on purpose to because it suited your argument.

berserker STARTING side lights are 500MS 15 damage.
orochi STARTING side lights have been speed up to 500 MS and changed to 15 damage.
pk STARTING side lights 500MS reduced to 13 damage.

now comes Warden STARTING side light gives guaranteed 18 damage. i merely wanted to align it with the latest changes and reduce it by a whooooooping 3 damage. shame on me right?

if you havent noticed i was and still are refering to STARTING lights and not to any chained or feinted attacks.
to make it more blunt i was talking about apples and you said lemons are stronger.




remeber that some of us actually had a good amount of time to play with these changed heroes in the TTS. so think again maybe just maaaaybe this ignorant statemant has some basis?

besides i didnt ask for any groundbreaking changes i merely wanted to keep him an an even playing field with the other heroes.

you on the other hand immedately accuse me of making irrational damands because of your personal opinion of me.

so i ask you to take a moment and take a good loock at yourself, try to distance yourself of personal bias as much as possible and see if tweaking a few damage numbers by a small margin is really this bad.

~I just explained why I think it's fine. It used to do 60+ with the old double light damage due to guaranteed SB.

~They're not comparable. I already explained why.

~Yes shame on you. 15 damage would make it the exact same as his top light. Which ruins the whole point of have 2 attacks guaranteed.

I don't care how much time you may or may not have put into the tts. it still doesn't change that anytime you're posting on here you're always complaining about how bad samurai got it and CONSTANTLY drawing lines (usually nerfs) to other heros that are not samurai and wanting them nerfed because samurai got nerfed. It's hard to ignore when that's literally what you do.

It really is. And if these changes were anything close to what he'd be needing it would be being currently discussed on the competitive scene and it's not.

[Vakris_One]

I'm liking it so far as a Warden main, the only thing i have a problem is fighting against Conquerors, it's an absolute nightmare because they have a save dodge meaning i can't punish them if they dodge from my attacks, which is so bs. Just fought against a playr that really frustrated me and i couldn't beat him for the life of me, he knew the timing of my bash so well that he would dodge everything even if i mixed it up, and even if i caught him in the dash he can just shoulder bash and voila, hes too ****ing safe and i felt at a disadvantage if i threw anything from neutral, he made me scared of using Warden against anyone else.. i guess i'll just take it easy.

That's just Conqueror. Mr. Unpunishable, 60% duel win rate, completely balanced non-existent shield bash recovery while the entire roster eats a nerf to dodge recovery.

GG Ubisoft.

[SenBotsu893]

~I just explained why I think it's fine. It used to do 60+ with the old double light damage due to guaranteed SB.

~They're not comparable. I already explained why.

~Yes shame on you. 15 damage would make it the exact same as his top light. Which ruins the whole point of have 2 attacks guaranteed.

I don't care how much time you may or may not have put into the tts. it still doesn't change that anytime you're posting on here you're always complaining about how bad samurai got it and CONSTANTLY drawing lines (usually nerfs) to other heros that are not samurai and wanting them nerfed because samurai got nerfed. It's hard to ignore when that's literally what you do.

It really is. And if these changes were anything close to what he'd be needing it would be being currently discussed on the competitive scene and it's not.

- and now its 55+. tis too high and you are aware of it but refuse to admit it.

- they are comparable. i already explained why but you put blinders on your eyes.

-15 damage would is for any 500 MS light attack. it would not ruin the point of side light attacks they would still be 500 MS attacks.

as if you didnt post any whiny threads when your mains gets threatened. just as is happening now. you are what people call a hypocrit.


well i gues i shouldnt expect anything else from this forum. here i am making a sound argument only using the simplest of math for people to understand and they immedatly plug their ears.

[Knight_Raime]

- and now its 55. tis too high and you are aware of it but refuse to admit it.

- they are comparable. i already explained why but you put blinders on your eyes.

-15 damage would is for any 500 MS light attack. it would not ruin the point of side light attacks they would still be 500 MS attacks.

as if you didnt post any whiny threads when your mains gets threatened. just as is happening now. you are what people call a hypocrit.


well i gues i shouldnt expect anything else from this forum. here i am making a sound argument only using the simplest of math for people to understand and they immedatly plug their ears.

You don't make any valid arguments because you 100% believe that because a change happened to someone else it is 100% okay to do the same to any other hero. That's not how it works. Fighters have different styles of play for a reason. The fact that you fail to grasp this is your problem that you don't acknowledge. I had one main. Centurion. And in every single thread i've ever made about him i've acknowledged his need for change. Buffs AND nerfs. I treat all heros/factions equally. Your post history says otherwise. So comparing me to you is a joke.

[Lil_Porkki]

Tbh I really like the new warden, the top heavy finisher is good in a group fight to get the damage in. Im glad that the SB soft fein to GB was taken away and he was given more tools, like the dodge attack to get those backdodging orochis. All in all I only had couple of hours to try her but im sure she will be in better spot now, lets see how she plays in the long run!