Warden Buff doesnt make much sense | Forums

[ChampionRuby50g]

You could argue the same for Beserker, or even orochi that they have always been good and not in need.

I reckon your just complaining about Warden because he’s the most played knight, and not basing any of this on experience...

[Yoshimitsu_440]

Did u just really say that orochi was good before rework...sigh...when we all cried for UBs and orochis with pk got none. now they are left behind once again with no way to open turtles BUT then Ubi goes and gives another UB to warden..fml

[ChampionRuby50g]

I said you could argue he was or not. Many believed he wasn’t bad, but not great and that’s fine. Never once did I state my opinion on it, people and their assumptions these days...

[Sneakly20]

It’s too early to call out buffs and nerfs I agree. But I don’t think I understand a heavy attack being 500 ms. Lights I can agree with all day but reacting to a move like that 1. Can combo 2. Only get a light out of it. Maybe it won’t prove to be that bad.

Not saying it’s strong yet but I personally don’t understand the decision behind it.

[The_B0G_]

I've been messing around with him in arena and his mixup game has been buffed big time, no more soft feint, but he has combos stemming from both his zone and his crushing counter, after a crushing counter you can get a guarenteed top light or move right into an unblockable.

His shoulder bash can be cancelled at any time now. I think so far he's good, I can't check against real players yet because my internet is too laggy atm but I'll be on later testing him for sure.

[Justicator]

As a warden main, I played dominion today and absolutely rekted everything. I was afraid of this rework, but I am now pleasantly surprised. He feels different, capable of being way more aggressive than before (just the way I like it) even without his soft feint. His ability to cancel shoulder-bash whenever is so good, and the tracking on it (even when not fully charged) and the new charge heavy attack, damn... absolutely beautiful

[Knight_Raime]

-sigh-

"Warden has always been good

so he was not in need of a buff but got one regardless?"

Don't take their words too literally please. You'll hurt yourself.

"Heavy finishers got damage increase AND stamina usage decrease.
you would think that a more powerfull blow would also require more stamina to pull off. especially when they get unblockable properties.

either decrease the damage payoff or increase the stamina usage by a lot."

Only the side heavy finisher and it was only bumped by 5. the top heavy finisher became 400ms slower. Asking both to take a bunch of stamina doesn't make since when they're already slow and he doesn't have any soft feint for either. They're meant to be one of his main mix up tools. Increasing the stamina would ruin that.

"next is crushing counter. this was always an excessive high damage payoff ... and it still is. 55 guaranteed damage for 1 single crushing counter is just insane.
30 damage similar to Highlanders crushing counterstrike is sufficient and the guaranteed light attack should also be gone."

Highlanders CC leads him into his offensive form where his big **** damage is. Not comparable to wardens. Wardens CC is less safe because it's coming from the top and he can't option select with it like highlander can. Crushing counter rarely lands in even high mid tier. It's fine. The removal of guaranteed SB makes sense because of how strong SB now is. The damage from CC plus SB follow up was never an actual issue.

"New forward Dodge is fine but needs some numbers and attributes changed as well.
500 MS heavy granting 20 Damage is too much.

remember that Kensei got his 500 MS forward dodge Helm Splitter attack changed to a light attack and damage was reduced from 20 to 17.

Wardens forward dodge attack should thus be treated as a light attack and the damage reduced to 17 as well."

It's really not. It's executable only 300ms into the dodge. For frame of reference centurion's kick is only available 300ms into his dodge and is 100ms slower. The move is super obvious if the person constantly relies on it. Kensei's helm splitter was always a light it just had a special property. It was rightly nerfed because of how new kensei plays with his top heavy. Considering kensei can go straight into his top heavy mix up with decent tracking options from neutral it's different than warden who has to get to his heavy finishers first. New dash heavy is a chase down. Helm splitter never was. It purely existed as one way to get into mix ups. different situations.

"side lights reduced to 500 MS from 600 MS damage went down from 24 to 18. okey nice they actually reduced the damage but if you compare it to the most recent reworks he gets the special treatment as well. most characters that have gotten the 500 MS treatment got the damage reduced to around 15 or even lower.
so the 500 MS double lights should not do more than 15 damage as well."

Immediate thought was zerks opening light. Which makes sense because it got a redic speed buff of 400ms and it has armor. Not comparable to Warden's side lights. Orochi's if they also got reduced in damage makes sense because they're unreactable 400ms lights in combo. Far more powerful than warden's side lights. If you reduced his double side lights to 15 then it would be as strong as his top light. Would make no sense to ever attempt the double hit when that leaves you open to an extra GB window in ganks.

You seem to have a very bad case of copy paste and I can't help but feel your bias towards anything non Samurai related is once again showing. It really shows you lack a proper grasp of other heros. How about you actually play with the new Warden for awhile before you start throwing out blind and frankly ignorant statements.

[Citrinitas]

I think you're all forgetting that he can still spam his complete charged shoulder bash, which is impossible to dodge out of unless you roll, at a heavy cost of stam, and he can still cancel shoulder bash into GB, it's just not baked into his kit anymore, so what's changed about his mixups again? lol, nothing

[NHLGoldenKnight]

I just wish they'd let Warden solve the mystery of what the pointy bit on the end of his sword is for. He's got some nerve calling himself a master of the longsword when he doesn't have any Thrust attacks.

This!
I was really hoping that Warden will get some kind of thrust attack, maybe weak dodge attack similar to Nobushi. And I got disappointed once again.

It is really funny how Ubisoft probably has on its payroll some kind of historians or medieval martial arts experts yet they completely faild to utilize longsword in this game since thrusting was even more important than cutting for real masters of longsword. To be even worse, Kensei and Orrochi have thrusting as a part of their combat even though their weapons are primarily created for cutting. It really shows how they don't care about Vanguard and Heavy class that much at all.

[Dragtyr]

I think you're all forgetting that he can still spam his complete charged shoulder bash, which is impossible to dodge out of unless you roll, at a heavy cost of stam, and he can still cancel shoulder bash into GB, it's just not baked into his kit anymore, so what's changed about his mixups again? lol, nothing

No it's not impossible to dodge. For no class at all. A side dodge easily avoids the SB with every single class. He can ofc charge it longer to track your side dodge. But that's up to you and his timing.
And there are still classes who have dodge attacks which not only avoid the SB but even the GB if you faint into it. His mechanic is completely countered buy quite a few classes. Just because you might have trouble with whatever class you play doesn't mean it's too strong or anything.