Junior Member
I was very excited about this new permadeath ghost mode and even purchased season 2 to access it early.
Well, I was having a blast being all tactical and feeling the adrenaline that came from being discovered and taking fire. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before I was intentionally team-killed by a guy named U_Cant_Stop_Me42 (or something like that) and lost all progress.
I'm afraid we've created a fun new venue for cyberbullying and it's likely ghost mode is ruined until permadeath from friendly fire is turned off.
Senior Member
Simply getting rid of FF will not stop griefers. There are many other ways they can get you killed without it. I think the root of your problem is obvious. ....stop playing with randoms.Originally Posted by Sabre_Shan Go to original post
Seriously, it sucks that you can't take advantage of the matchmaking feature but I would find a group either through forums, a task force, communities, etc.
Personally, I never liked the idea of a permadeath feature and as more of these testimonials come to light (glitch deaths, toxic players, etc.), I think Ubi may rethink it as well.
Senior Member
I think they will rethink it, Kean. I'd like to see a function to allow the player to revert back to the session start or previous day if we can't have Permadeath as an option in Ghost Mode. At least that way there is a get out for glitch deaths. They can't get rid of every glitch, so Permadeath is going to tarnish the game over time if it isn't changed.
Senior Member
Ah! Second thread that talks about friendly kill.
See. Setting Friendly Fire on isn't the same as finding a way to kill fellow player in non-Friendly Fire environment.
It invites Dark Zone-kind of PvP players who are mostly if not all are basically griefer.
I would disagree to turn permadeath and friendly fire off in Ghost Mode because otherwise that's no longer Ghost Mode. Without these features, that mode is exactly the same main campaign barred behind different menu. But this has to be sorted out really soon before 3 months or otherwise we will have these specific Ghost Mode-grieving community infested in the game.
We are talking about PvP element and abusive people here. And from previous experience, it's just a wound getting bigger and it's not going to be easy to cure.
Ubi, pay attention to this Ghost Mode!
Senior Member
Even if Ghost mode's new friendly fire function were disabled you could still be griefkilled by grenades or C4 or mines, the vanilla game always had friendly fire enabled for explosives.
Also a griefer could intentionally engineer a fatal chopper crash for you if they are using a throwaway character themselves. Or leave you to die in a burning car that is about to explode. Or even let enemies kill you, refuse to revive you, and just log off.
Permadeath itself is what allows this sort of griefing, not friendly fire.
Senior Member
If perma death was the cause, then why does Division Dark Zone and games like Dark Souls become extremely toxic?
That's because the ability to screw someone off.
Like I said earlier, having the so-called friendly fire or any sort of rule that legitimately allows you to damage other player in PvE environment isn't the same as finding a work-around to damage another player.
Friendly fire makes these players to grief. Why? Because now they can kill other players by the rule and without penalty. Perma death is just the icing on the cake because they can add the burden to their target. That's the whole grieving concept.
It's only a matter of time until you see Ghost Mode grievers appear around here and say "Learn how to enjoy the game. If you don't like getting killed by other player, don't play Ghost Mode." or something else along that line. Or PvPer saying "This is the only way we can simulate Battle Royal in this game."
I guarantee it.
Ubi better deal with this sh*t as fast as possible before the septic tank clogs.
Senior Member
Junior Member
It's not simply pvp or player killing. It's trust killing with permanent death of the character, intentionally done so to cause grief to all the other gamers. It's made possible by the fact that the mechanics of the game make you especially vulnerable to trust-killers by putting them on your team, advertising your location, and allowing the enemy to fast travel to you without any idea of their hostile intentions. It's the pinnacle of cyberbullying within gaming, and it's been around well before 2003, at least before Ghost Mode, you'd have to get your account hacked for someone to maliciously delete your character progression.
Anyway, I am going to fix this for myself by playing with friends-only, no random matchmaking. Unfortunately this hurts the community and I will miss jumping in game with randoms and making new friends.
Senior Member
Yeah, same thing, always has been. That's why PK'ing was dropped from games; which wasn't a big tradeoffs anyway, because friendly fire isn't something that should be portrayed as common place. Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it's extremely circumstantial.Originally Posted by Sabre_Shan Go to original post
For example: Calling in a mortar strike and remaining in the kill box. That's "danger close" and that means there exist a large potential for death. When you say "danger close", you're informing remote support you are in the area; but you're also saying you don't have any other option, it's the risk you're willing to take.
PK'ing is nothing like that. Whether you are inviting dudes to a game or your fire team it's the same thing. There's not an accidental element here to call it "friendly fire". PK'ing is intentional. The difference between PK'ing and PvP is deception. Which isn't a game, it's a lottery.
Everything that could be tried, has been tried with the concept of "friendly fire" in all sorts of games. Even game lobbies with game headings, to clearly state a desire for purposed gameplay. There simply is no way to remove "intent" from the equation. Even score penalising wasn't a deterrent.
We've been through all this before, dunno what makes the Devs feel they can reinvent the wheel here; at least, not without a tonne of very specific programming, that would globally change the games AI.
I'm also sure people will spit chips when they paid for early access and things like PK'ing and Permadeath are removed when it goes public. On the point of Permadeath, I haven't lost a character yet, due to any action or rules of the game; but every time, by simply dropping through the ground into a void. Which never happens outside of detected/engaged statuses.
Junior Member
The most simple and easiest solution to this problem would be to add an option whenever someone is killed by a teammate.
That option would open up a menu that display a simple message :
"You have died from friendly fire. Was it intentional?"
Under it, there would be 2 options :
1) "Yes. I was shot intentionally by another player."
2) "No, it was a mistake on our part."
Selecting 2) would basically act as it's currently happening. The standard permadeath.
Selecting 1) would reset ALL the players to a certain point (like the regular game's checkpoint) while permanently ban the Team Killer from the game.
This means that while it may happen multiple times from different Team killers joining a game, the result wouldn't be as devastating as it currently is.
If you want something even more precise and efficient, there could be a kind of hidden score attached to someone's game or even account that would affect if they can join certain games.
Basically, any case of bans from TK would reduce the gamer's score by 1 while completing 3 objectives WITH other players (solo wouldn't count) would raise the score by 1 to a maximum of 10 in score and a minimum of -10. Hosts could set a specific range toward which any players joining must be at.
Someone who's at 10 means he, with at least 1 other player, would have succeeded in 30 or more objectives (remind that this is in a permadeath environment).
Someone who's at -10 means he did 10 TK in without successfully completing even 3 objectives with anyone.
If the host set the range to 0-10, then that means nobody who did at least 1 TK "voluntarily" without doing 3x more objectives than TK can join.
If someone join a game and accidentally kill a friend who select 1) out of despite, the TK player do get -1, but joining another game (as he has been banned from the previous game) could allow him to recover by completing 3 objectives.
So, this system could involve both a "Sentence" and a "Pardon" system. If a player keep always selecting 1) because he think he can just avoid permadeath like that, he'll end up alone because nobody will be able to join his/her game after a while.
The only point I'm still not sure about (if this system was to be implemented) would be "What to do if you accidentally ban a friend?"
Maybe something like resetting the Bans list whenever you delete your character. This way, you still loose your progress (like a delayed permadeath), but still can play with that friend who you accidentally banned.
This is just a suggestion. An idea about how to fix this issue.
